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Go Back   Casebook Forums > Ripper Discussions > Suspects > Maybrick, James

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  #881  
Old 09-13-2017, 11:17 AM
Observer Observer is offline
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Originally Posted by Mike J. G. View Post
Detail, Herlock. Why would a forger add something unknown? Well, to make it seem more believable. When lying/hoaxing, it is beneficial to add seemingly useless detail, it is done to add credibility.
By the late 1980's, which is when I believe the idea for the Diary was first formulated, a lot more was known about the ways of the serial killer. We invariably find that the one's who are caught and brought to justice have a fair few more victims to their tally than the police gave them credit for at the time of their crimes. The Yorkshire Ripper was one of those killers. I would expect an individual who wished to concoct a hoax where a serial killer is involved to be aware of this fact. Hence the Manchester murder which is featured in the Diary.

A contemporary hoaxer would know little if anything about the ways of the serial killer. I doubt he had the capacity to formulate the Manchester attack, and include it in the Diary. In short, again, I believe it to be a modern idea.
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  #882  
Old 09-13-2017, 11:18 AM
Mike J. G. Mike J. G. is offline
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Originally Posted by Sam Flynn View Post
As Pooh-Bah says in The Mikado, "Merely corroborative detail, intended to give artistic verisimilitude to an otherwise bald and unconvincing narrative".
Exactly. There's a good take on this concept in a now defunct comedy show, in which the couple attempts to lie to their friends so as to get out of a party they do not wish to attend, and they make note of how a good lie should include otherwise bland or seemingly unrelated detail.

Everyone has done this to some extent or other when making an excuse.

Awh, I couldn't go in the end, I was a bit ill, been up all night coughing and sneezing. Woke up today and went to the doctors, I saw Bill on my way, but he didn't see me.
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  #883  
Old 09-13-2017, 11:19 AM
Herlock Sholmes Herlock Sholmes is offline
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Originally Posted by Mike J. G. View Post
For me, it's all silly, and it's all very much in shameless promotional taste: We know great things! Buy the book and attend the talks for details!

Very much in the average "I know who dunnit" style of Ripper yarn. Buy the book, wear the t-shirt.
Doesn't every new book do that? Why does a book connected with the diary attract the kind of anger that a book promoting Conan Doyle or Robert Mann doesn't?

Do you not think that there's even a possibility that Robert Smith might actually believe the diary to be genuine?
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  #884  
Old 09-13-2017, 11:23 AM
Mike J. G. Mike J. G. is offline
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Originally Posted by Herlock Sholmes View Post
So you would have no problem creating a document that could fool an ion migration test that indicates when the ink was applied to the paper Mike?
Herlock, I do believe that I've been over the concept of people hoodwinking "science".

It matters not one bit whether the forger presumed he could or would fool anyone, if it didn't fool anyone, what would it matter? If it did, back-of-the-net!

Whoever wrote the diary didn't care one bit whether the handwriting matched the man in question, so why would they bother sweating about whether the ink could fool anyone?

The fact remains, as others before me have mentioned, that the ink is a non-starter, seeing as we have differing results on the age of it.
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  #885  
Old 09-13-2017, 11:23 AM
Sam Flynn Sam Flynn is offline
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However as I'm sure you (and many others) are in bliss, and because I like you, your excuse is sufficient for me old chap.
Nice one, Neil
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  #886  
Old 09-13-2017, 11:26 AM
Mike J. G. Mike J. G. is offline
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Originally Posted by Observer View Post
By the late 1980's, which is when I believe the idea for the Diary was first formulated, a lot more was known about the ways of the serial killer. We invariably find that the one's who are caught and brought to justice have a fair few more victims to their tally than the police gave them credit for at the time of their crimes. The Yorkshire Ripper was one of those killers. I would expect an individual who wished to concoct a hoax where a serial killer is involved to be aware of this fact. Hence the Manchester murder which is featured in the Diary.

A contemporary hoaxer would know little if anything about the ways of the serial killer. I doubt he had the capacity to formulate the Manchester attack, and include it in the Diary. In short, again, I believe it to be a modern idea.
Very much so. Not only that, but the number of local crime books coming out between the early 80's and early 90's were rocketing.

We had, and still do have, local mysteries/tales being featured in local papers each week, and Slemen even had one in the Merseymart for a number of years, as well as a weekly slot on the radio, Billy Butler's show.

Me and my dad have collected pretty much all of these books that have been released over the years, involving local crime, local pubs, and local history in general. You can find them in all relevant local stores.
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  #887  
Old 09-13-2017, 11:32 AM
Mike J. G. Mike J. G. is offline
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Originally Posted by Herlock Sholmes View Post
Doesn't every new book do that? Why does a book connected with the diary attract the kind of anger that a book promoting Conan Doyle or Robert Mann doesn't?

Do you not think that there's even a possibility that Robert Smith might actually believe the diary to be genuine?
I'm not sure what you mean by this, seeing as I've already mentioned how a lot of Ripper literature seems to be promoted in such a way.

The subject here is the diary, and there's a new book on it, so my comment was pretty much entirely valid.

My cares are not vested in who believes what about which, my stance is that it's a hoax, and a recent one, and if anyone believes otherwise, then show me the money. I'm not seeing much in the way of "money" from anyone.
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  #888  
Old 09-13-2017, 11:36 AM
Hunter Hunter is offline
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Originally Posted by Mike J. G. View Post
For me, it's all silly, and it's all very much in shameless promotional taste: We know great things! Buy the book and attend the talks for details!

Very much in the average "I know who dunnit" style of Ripper yarn. Buy the book, wear the t-shirt.
There apparently is a t-shirt being offered now too, but in no way affiliated with the OP of this thread.
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When evidence is not to be had, theories abound. Even the most plausible of them do not carry conviction- London Times Nov. 10.1888
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  #889  
Old 09-13-2017, 11:38 AM
Observer Observer is offline
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I would expect that Liverpool Central Library had an extensive true crime section shortly before the emergence of the Diary.
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  #890  
Old 09-13-2017, 11:39 AM
Mike J. G. Mike J. G. is offline
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There apparently is a t-shirt being offered now too, but in no way affiliated with the OP of this thread.
I can't say that I'm surprised, tbh, lol.

I just hope it includes the slogan: I want to believe.
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