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View Poll Results: Did Jack write the GSG?
YES 73 38.22%
NO 118 61.78%
Voters: 191. You may not vote on this poll

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  #1661  
Old 09-13-2017, 06:10 AM
Joshua Rogan Joshua Rogan is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trevor Marriott View Post
Most hmmmmmmmmmmmm residents of numpty towers?
How old are you, Trrvor?

Quote:
The official report are the one to regard
The 'official report' where three people confirm she was wearing an apron when alive, which you disregard?
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  #1662  
Old 09-13-2017, 06:26 AM
Jon Guy Jon Guy is offline
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Originally Posted by Joshua Rogan View Post
I have to agree with Trevor on this one...

Halse said that he saw the body stripped at the mortuary before hearing that a piece of apron had been found in Goulston Street. So as I see it, when Dr Brown talks of matching that piece with the piece still attached to the body, he must mean attached when the body was found, not when the pieces were matched.
Are you sure ?

Collard states that the body was stripped by the mortuary keeper in the presence of the 2 doctors and himself.

No Halse ?
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  #1663  
Old 09-13-2017, 06:35 AM
Jon Guy Jon Guy is offline
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Originally Posted by Trevor Marriott View Post
That is conjecture on your part !
No, it`s the appliance of the facts.
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  #1664  
Old 09-13-2017, 06:44 AM
Abby Normal Abby Normal is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joshua Rogan View Post
How old are you, Trrvor?



The 'official report' where three people confirm she was wearing an apron when alive, which you disregard?
Hi JR

Quote:
How old are you, Trrvor?
LOL!

I always tend to forgive Trevor a little when he calls me a Numpty. Its kind of cute and endearing somehow
__________________
"Is all that we see or seem
but a dream within a dream?"

-Edgar Allan Poe


"...the man and the peaked cap he is said to have worn
quite tallies with the descriptions I got of him."

-Frederick G. Abberline
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  #1665  
Old 09-13-2017, 06:58 AM
Trevor Marriott Trevor Marriott is offline
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Originally Posted by Jon Guy View Post
Are you sure ?

Collard states that the body was stripped by the mortuary keeper in the presence of the 2 doctors and himself.

No Halse ?
And at that time the Gs piece had not been found.

He says he saw the body stripped, two interpretations, stripped as in clothing removed, or stripped with the body naked after clothes removed!

www.trevormarriott.co.uk

Last edited by Trevor Marriott : 09-13-2017 at 07:05 AM.
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  #1666  
Old 09-13-2017, 07:13 AM
Trevor Marriott Trevor Marriott is offline
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Originally Posted by Joshua Rogan View Post
How old are you, Trrvor?



The 'official report' where three people confirm she was wearing an apron when alive, which you disregard?
I have merely highlighted how unsafe their evidence is, and the reasons why it is unsafe.

At the end of the day it doesn't change the fact that we know 2 pieces of apron were matched at the mortuary and were both connected in some way to the victim.

But for two officers to stand in court and have produced before them an old piece of white apron and state that they believed it came from an apron the victim was wearing beggars belief. At that point questions should have been asked of them about how they could be certain, what was special and memorable about the apron they saw her wearing etc etc for then to remember she was wearing an apron when they only had fleeting glimpses of her.

www.trevormarriott.co.uk

Last edited by Trevor Marriott : 09-13-2017 at 07:19 AM.
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  #1667  
Old 09-13-2017, 07:19 AM
Elamarna Elamarna is offline
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Point by point


Quote:


Much of what you say, is how you believe things should have been done, how things You beleive should have been recorded; its your own perspective and is not necessarily so.

And its not necessary so that we readily accept the opinions of the police from 1888. My opinion based on what I have presented is just as valid as theirs from 1888, even more so when you look at the ambiguities more closely.
Oh dear Trevor. Your views 129 years on from the events are just a valid as those there.
That is just arrogant.

Quote:
I and others see NO case to suggest she was not wearing an apron.
Indeed last night I read again the official report and I do not reach your conclusion. It appears clear that she was wearing an apron. That you choose to interpret the same document differently is one of those things.

But the official lists show she was not wearing an apron and no matter how you or others twist that around that evidence is not going to go away. Nor is the fact that pieces of apron are continually mentioned, along with the fact that their in no evidence to show the two matched pieces ever made up a full apron.
No they don't. They do not list it as being clothing, that is a different matter entirely.
And you have been provided with possible explanations for this. You don't accept those, no problem
What is not going to go away however is the testimony saying she was wearing an apron.


Quote:
The point of my post was that this is the same debate over and over again. It appears you have convinced few of your interpretation. Just repeating the same arguments will not change that.

Yes because you and others choose to keep sweeping what I suggest under the carpet hoping it will go away so you can get back to discussing the old accpted theory.
No I am not sweeping it under an carpet, it is in the open, unproven and poorly supported by actual sources/evidence.


[Quote ]
What you have done is to provide possabilties, which while not impossible are far from convincing to others who study the murders.

Because those you refer to dont want the mystery changing
[/quote]

No Trevor it is because you have repeatedly failed to prove you points,

Quote:
You may be correct, who knows, however the source data does not appear to support that in the view of most.

Most hmmmmmmmmmmmm residents of numpty towers?
Sticks and stones, surely ypu can do better.

Quote:
My comments are based on the official report not the paper reports which you incorrectly still refer to as Secondary Sources, from an historical perspective they are also primary sources, being recorded at the same time and in the same place as the official report.

The official report are the one to regard, those secondary sources you and others seek to rely on, many are in conflict with the official reports, and in many case conflict with each other, but again we see time and again, a newspaper report quoted simply to corroborate someones explanation or theory.
Please they are not secondary sources, you may not like it, but they are Primary sources.

Quote:
However the official report being present does give advantages to the researcher, it allows comparison of mistakes and also ommisions. This is important as it is clear from just reading the official report that the wording for some questions is impricise.

Not just the wording but the answers given by witnesses
Agreed. That is why one needs to compare.


Quote:
This is one of the reasons I am giving the Project treatment to Mitre Square next.

I look forward to reading it.
I will appreciate any comments and input you care to make.

Steve
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  #1668  
Old 09-13-2017, 07:34 AM
Jon Guy Jon Guy is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trevor Marriott View Post
And at that time the Gs piece had not been found.
I think you need a detailed timeline of the nights events.
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  #1669  
Old 09-13-2017, 07:50 AM
Jon Guy Jon Guy is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trevor Marriott View Post
But for two officers to stand in court and have produced before them an old piece of white apron and state that they believed it came from an apron the victim was wearing beggars belief. At that point questions should have been asked of them about how they could be certain, what was special and memorable about the apron they saw her wearing etc etc for then to remember she was wearing an apron when they only had fleeting glimpses of her.
I guess you`re not aware of the process Hutt went through in identifying Eddowes as the woman who had been in their custody ?

But anyway, as I`ve told you a couple of times this week, both Hutt and Robinson said "to the best of my knowledge ... " when asked about the apron

...and you know Hutt had to check Eddowes clothing for anything dangerous, so he was in a good position to notice her apron.
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  #1670  
Old 09-13-2017, 08:20 AM
Trevor Marriott Trevor Marriott is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon Guy View Post
I guess you`re not aware of the process Hutt went through in identifying Eddowes as the woman who had been in their custody ?

But anyway, as I`ve told you a couple of times this week, both Hutt and Robinson said "to the best of my knowledge ... " when asked about the apron
That is not a positive identification. Its like a witness viewing an ID parade and says I think its number 3

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