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Go Back   Casebook Forums > Ripper Discussions > Police Officials and Procedures > General Police Discussion

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  #41  
Old 08-23-2017, 01:35 AM
Pierre Pierre is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David Orsam View Post
My dear boy, I don't understand what you are talking about and you don't seem to be addressing me in a genuine spirit of enquiry so I can't help you other than to say that "LMA" means London Metropolitan Archives and the LMA file is the only one that known to exist: there is no other source available in the LMA or anywhere else.
No, you donīt understand although it is easy my dear David.

I am addressing you in a genuine spirit of enquiry.

You do not need to tell me the meaning of LMA. You do it just to give the impression that I am the one who does not understand, when indeed it is you.

Now, there are photocopies of the two different sources we are discussing, i.e. the original inquisition and the transcription of the original deposition.

These photocopies are in the LMA.

The problem, obviously, is that the part of the photocopies which consists of the transcription does not show us the original deposition.

And therefore, the question is wether the original exists in the LMA or not.

You see David, archives contain many sources. And there may be another source in the LMA, i.e. the original source.

The reason for this hypothesis is, firstly, that the photocopies shown to the public do not contain it, and, secondly, this:

"The inquest papers into the death of Marie Kelly are the only papers
surviving within the Middlesex Coroners’ records (MJ/SPC/NE/376/1-11).
Photocopies of these inquest papers are kept in our Information Area with the
catalogues of the Middlesex Sessions Papers relating to coroners’ inquests MJ/SP/C."

(http://www.cityoflondon.gov.uk/thing...er-murders.pdf)

And in Leaflet 41:

"As the records are uncatalogued, access is by prior appointment only. However photocopies of the inquest papers relating to Marie Kelly, one of Jack the Ripper’s victims, are available on the open shelves with the catalogues of MJ/SP/C." (My bold).

(http://www.cityoflondon.gov.uk/thing...-middlesex.pdf)

As you can see, there is a set of photocopies available to the public on the open shelves. And then there are the sources in the LMA, which is accessable by appointment only.

So the question is if the original of the deposition, i.e. not a transcription, also is in the LMA and can be accessed by appointment.

Pierre

Last edited by Pierre : 08-23-2017 at 01:40 AM.
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  #42  
Old 08-23-2017, 09:57 AM
David Orsam David Orsam is offline
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My dear boy, if I understand you correctly, the answer is very simple.

All of the documents in the LMA file (MJ/SPC/NE/376/1-11), including the depositions, are originals, written in ink (i.e. not photocopies). But none of the depositions in the LMA file are signed.

The LMA file contains all the documents held by the LMA. Therefore, if your question actually is: "Does the LMA hold signed original depositions from the Kelly inquest?", the answer is: No, it does not.
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  #43  
Old 08-26-2017, 01:04 PM
Pierre Pierre is offline
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Originally Posted by David Orsam View Post
My dear boy, if I understand you correctly, the answer is very simple.

All of the documents in the LMA file (MJ/SPC/NE/376/1-11), including the depositions, are originals, written in ink (i.e. not photocopies). But none of the depositions in the LMA file are signed.

The LMA file contains all the documents held by the LMA. Therefore, if your question actually is: "Does the LMA hold signed original depositions from the Kelly inquest?", the answer is: No, it does not.
And if it does not, where are the signed depositions and why was the original source transcribed?

Pierre
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  #44  
Old 08-27-2017, 05:14 AM
David Orsam David Orsam is offline
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And if it does not
It does not, my dear boy, so the word "if", which I understand you normally find very distasteful, is not appropriate here and you should have said "And as it does not..."

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre View Post
where are the signed depositions and why was the original source transcribed?
I refer you, my dear boy, to what I said in #36 above.
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  #45  
Old 08-27-2017, 09:52 AM
Pierre Pierre is offline
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Originally Posted by David Orsam View Post
It does not, my dear boy, so the word "if", which I understand you normally find very distasteful, is not appropriate here and you should have said "And as it does not..."

I refer you, my dear boy, to what I said in #36 above.
But the question of the jury perhaps having signed two copies is not a solution to the problem of the missing original.
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  #46  
Old 08-27-2017, 09:56 AM
David Orsam David Orsam is offline
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But the question of the jury perhaps having signed two copies is not a solution to the problem of the missing original.
I haven't said it is my dear boy.
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  #47  
Old 08-29-2017, 12:06 PM
Pierre Pierre is offline
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Originally Posted by David Orsam View Post
I haven't said it is my dear boy.
So why do you refer to #36?
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  #48  
Old 08-29-2017, 12:29 PM
David Orsam David Orsam is offline
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So why do you refer to #36?
My dear boy, you asked a question in the OP of this thread and I have answered it. The printed handwritings in Smithkey are printed from the original papers of the coroner as held in the London Metropolitan Archives. Those papers include unsigned depositions only, so you can draw whatever conclusion you want to draw from that.

I can't answer every single question that pops into your head...
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  #49  
Old 08-29-2017, 12:46 PM
Pierre Pierre is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David Orsam View Post
My dear boy, you asked a question in the OP of this thread and I have answered it. The printed handwritings in Smithkey are printed from the original papers of the coroner as held in the London Metropolitan Archives. Those papers include unsigned depositions only, so you can draw whatever conclusion you want to draw from that.

I can't answer every single question that pops into your head...
But have you actually seen the original and not just the copies?
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  #50  
Old 08-29-2017, 01:03 PM
David Orsam David Orsam is offline
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But have you actually seen the original and not just the copies?
Yes, of course.
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