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Go Back   Casebook Forums > Ripper Discussions > Victims > Elizabeth Stride

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  #81  
Old 02-17-2017, 10:50 AM
Michael W Richards Michael W Richards is offline
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Originally Posted by Abby Normal View Post
Exactly
It's absurd how far some people go on here to see minor differences in major similarities. I mean you could say there are 5 different serial killers based on the minor differences in c5.

Polly. No organs taken
Chapman. Uterus taken
Eddowes. Kidney taken
Stride. Cut throat only
Kelly. Heart taken
We are all familiar with the wisecracks and bizarre interpretations. Maybe you should read about the cases....without the so often insertion of suspect bias. Location/Victimology/Signature-Pattern...all that matters. And of course that the real so called Ripper murders were random acts.
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  #82  
Old 02-17-2017, 02:57 PM
Abby Normal Abby Normal is offline
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We are all familiar with the wisecracks and bizarre interpretations. Maybe you should read about the cases....without the so often insertion of suspect bias. Location/Victimology/Signature-Pattern...all that matters. And of course that the real so called Ripper murders were random acts.
Yes it all does matter and points to a serial killer and not random acts.
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  #83  
Old 02-18-2017, 07:39 AM
The Good Michael The Good Michael is offline
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The man was Michael Maybrick of course and he was using a verse from a song he'd been working on which mocked Polish immigrants in the end. I don't remember the entire song as I was stumbling around drunk trying to light a pipe, but it went something like "Loose Lipskis, sink shipskis."

Pipeman
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  #84  
Old 02-18-2017, 02:57 PM
Abby Normal Abby Normal is offline
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The man was Michael Maybrick of course and he was using a verse from a song he'd been working on which mocked Polish immigrants in the end. I don't remember the entire song as I was stumbling around drunk trying to light a pipe, but it went something like "Loose Lipskis, sink shipskis."

Pipeman
Lol. Well aren't you a clever little devil.
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"Is all that we see or seem
but a dream within a dream?"

-Edgar Allan Poe


"...the man and the peaked cap he is said to have worn
quite tallies with the descriptions I got of him."

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  #85  
Old 02-22-2017, 11:28 AM
Michael W Richards Michael W Richards is offline
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Yes it all does matter and points to a serial killer and not random acts.
I'm curious...what evidence do you base your assumption on that Polly and Annie were not random acts of violence, stranger to stranger as it were.
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  #86  
Old 02-22-2017, 03:50 PM
John G John G is offline
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I'm curious...what evidence do you base your assumption on that Polly and Annie were not random acts of violence, stranger to stranger as it were.
The double throat cuts, in respect of Polly and Annie, are strongly indicative of a ritualistic element to those murders. And, this is very much indicative of a serial killer.

Last edited by John G : 02-22-2017 at 03:58 PM.
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  #87  
Old 02-22-2017, 04:56 PM
c.d. c.d. is offline
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I'm curious...what evidence do you base your assumption on that Polly and Annie were not random acts of violence, stranger to stranger as it were.
Hello Michael,

The problem is that random acts of violence do not equate to the Ripper murders. It is the very nature of the murders, i.e, organ removal (or in Polly's case an apparent attempt at such) that make them unique. If all of these women had simply had their throats cut Ripperology would not be what it is today. So yes, bad men did exist in Whitechapel as you say but simply being a bad or evil man or even a murderer is not the same as a murderer who removes internal organs from the women he killed.

Focusing on the differences in the murders makes us lose sight of what made them unique in the first place.

c.d.
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  #88  
Old 02-23-2017, 06:23 AM
Abby Normal Abby Normal is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael W Richards View Post
I'm curious...what evidence do you base your assumption on that Polly and Annie were not random acts of violence, stranger to stranger as it were.
Hi Michael
first of all, they probably were stranger to stranger, except perhaps the Kelly murder, which seems to be that they were known to each other.

the similarity of the series is why they were not random acts of violence-its the clear pattern of a serial killer who, as most do, perfect there technique as they go along and exhibit escalating violence as there fantasy evolves. which might explain any apparent "differences" between murders, as will the specific circumstances of each particular event.

as ive said countless times before-you miss the major similarities between them by focusing on minute differences. cant see the forest through the trees so to speak. That and or some pre conceived theories that you stubbornly adhere to.
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"Is all that we see or seem
but a dream within a dream?"

-Edgar Allan Poe


"...the man and the peaked cap he is said to have worn
quite tallies with the descriptions I got of him."

-Frederick G. Abberline
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  #89  
Old 02-24-2017, 09:55 AM
Michael W Richards Michael W Richards is offline
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Originally Posted by Abby Normal View Post
Hi Michael
first of all, they probably were stranger to stranger, except perhaps the Kelly murder, which seems to be that they were known to each other.

the similarity of the series is why they were not random acts of violence-its the clear pattern of a serial killer who, as most do, perfect there technique as they go along and exhibit escalating violence as there fantasy evolves. which might explain any apparent "differences" between murders, as will the specific circumstances of each particular event.

as ive said countless times before-you miss the major similarities between them by focusing on minute differences. cant see the forest through the trees so to speak. That and or some pre conceived theories that you stubbornly adhere to.
I agree that the first 2 were almost certainly stranger to stranger, it appears that while soliciting these women met their killer, and whether their diminished capacity or the fact that they were alone in the middle of the night, he took his opportunity. A random killing, in that no specific person was intended.

The thing I take seriously, where some others do not, are the circumstances. Both Polly and Annie were weakened physically, Polly from drink, Annie was ill, but they were also the ONLY 2 Canonicals that were KNOWN to be soliciting at the time. Therefore their very activity provided the killer with the means to get them into the dark alone. That cannot be said within the remaining 3 women who were also in that infamous Group. In fact, 1 was at home in bed.

The actual wounds created were all by knife, but they differed greatly by severity and focus. Also by demonstrated skill.

That's why I cling to the beliefs I have.
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  #90  
Old 02-25-2017, 10:10 AM
Harry D Harry D is online now
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Stride is an obvious deviation, once you use the grey matter.
There are reasons to doubt Stride, that much is a given, but there are also too many unknowns to say either way with any great confidence. And yes, I'm going to roll out the usual chestnut that the killer might have been disrupted.

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I could care less what modern theory about serial killers is, as I said.. once again... I believe we are talking about 2 murders by one man, maybe 3, and that is just barely within the serial killer definition.
First of all, it's couldn't care less, since the opposite is a contradiction in meaning. It's a pet peeve of mine that you North Americans have butchered that expression. Secondly, I'm well aware of your aversion to comparisons with modern serial killers. That doesn't make them any less valid.

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No. Because she was killed indoors in bed...location...., because she was half the age of any other Canonical...victimology....
This is such a reductive argument that I can't even be bothered to refute it.

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Originally Posted by Michael W Richards View Post
There is a statement by witness that is later discredited that suggests that. It appears though she was out drinking and came home drunk with someone from the bar, the either slept with the man or by herself.
Hutchinson's story was sketchy but was it ever discredited? How do you know the man who came back with MJK wasn't a punter? She was a destitute who made her money on her back and had recently broken up with her live-in lover. It's not exactly a stretch to think she was back on the game.

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Blotchy man is a good suspect, if his name was Joe, he is a very good suspect. Issacs is also a good possibility...Joe Isaacs.
And if 'Blotchy' or Joseph Isaacs were good suspects for that crime, chances are they were candidates for the rest.

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Originally Posted by Michael W Richards View Post
Roll your eyes all you want, you made the faux pas that I want to see "any knife crime in 1888 or 1889" attributed to the Ripper. I never said or even implied such a thing. I have no idea how many of these murders were committed by the same man. There are serial killers out there whose victim counts have hit double figures and they adjusted their methods. In which case, how can we definitively rule out any of these unsolved murders in Whitechapel? However, what I can do is recognise a consistent pattern.

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Dont have a suspect, dont need one. My goal is to obtain an accurate total.
And let me just say you've done a bang up job so far!
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Last edited by Harry D : 02-25-2017 at 10:12 AM.
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