Suggestion

[Pcdunn]

Thanks for the info, Rosella. So it makes a lot of sense that the open door "knocked" against the bed-side table!

[Robert St Devil]

Hello PCDunn.

I have been going back&forth between MJK1, 3 and the outside of the court. I am trying to determine the dustance from the doorknob to the windows edge from the courtyard photo.

I think what Pierre is calling the DOOR is actually the "broken pane" window which is being covered by a drawn shade or a curtain; the vertical thread of light being shown through at the curtain/shade's edge. {Maybe the photog needed it closed because there was too much light shining directly into the lens, dunno}

I am thinking this because it looks like you can see the doorknob in the upper left of the frame, which would mean THAT DOOR opened into the room and struck the table on the side of the bed.

Also the light hitting her organs on the table looks like it may be coming from the 2nd window.

In re: to Pierres assertion that the coroner asked about the movement of furniture, he may have been asking moreso about the table which looks awkward jammed up against the bedside (but, who-knows?). Also, if there was a door in the partition that was opened to take MJK3, then it would be to the left of the brown shaded area in MysterySingers post.

Your thoughts?

[Robert St Devil]

Hi Ros.
Im surprised no one has brought its the storage room where some say Catherine Eddowes stayed at some prior time.

Yea, i've read that the rooms were 10x12, which makes sense. On the 10' side, you would have had the door (2.5 to 3 ft) plus the bed (approx. 5'). So that would leave 2 to 2.5 feet or less for the table between the door and bed AS WELL AS the space between bed and wall.

Outside. The courtyard is described as 15 by 15(?) feet, which measure out too. The length of the room would occupy 12' while the passage way would be the other 3 ft.

[Wickerman]

Hi Ros.
Im surprised no one has brought its the storage room where some say Catherine Eddowes stayed at some prior time.

I already searched the press section for that source as I couldn't recall if she stayed in the shed, or next to the shed, but I couldn't find the reference anyway.

[Shaggyrand]

I already searched the press section for that source as I couldn't recall if she stayed in the shed, or next to the shed, but I couldn't find the reference anyway.

The earliest reference I recall of Eddows sometimes crashing in A shed is Daily Telegraph- October 3. Though it doesn't become the shed area at no 26 until after November 10th- in anything I've seen anyway.

[Rosella]

Paul Begg in 'Jack the Ripper: The Facts' gives the figures of 12 feet by 8 feet for the rooms (which would make them very tiny) and also writes of Eddowes spending nights in a shed when she had no money. He speculates that it might be in Miller's Court.

The Daily Telegraph of 13th of November has Prater stating 'I live at 20 room in Miller's Court, above the shed'. Actually, although a shed is usually a separate building in a garden it is used for storing things, and I think it would be a fairly common description of this store room, which wasn't completely open to the elements.

[DJA]

I'm starting to wonder if Jack was truly a lust serial killer or if his true passion was moving furniture.

OMG. It's turning into another Lechmere thread!

[DJA]

Paul Begg in 'Jack the Ripper: The Facts' gives the figures of 12 feet by 8 feet for the rooms (which would make them very tiny) and also writes of Eddowes spending nights in a shed when she had no money. He speculates that it might be in Miller's Court.

Have a look at the timelines.

In at least one newspaper interview John Kelly implies they had been back for a bit longer than we believe.
He was also not sure when his boots were pawned.

Stride and Kidney were living in Dorset Street when Liz left for good.

In fact,all three remaining women seemed to be ditching their partners.
Rather like they were expecting to come into some money and leaving their slum life behind them.

Of course Chapman had resided several doors away and Nichols moved next to Eddowes days before she and Kelly went hopping.

Nichols and Chapman were murdered close to the London Hospital.

Of course these women did not know each other and Jack had no anatomical or surgical expertise.

[Sam Flynn]

Unless, as Steve suggests, there are other undiscovered rooms.

No doubt they'll be found behind secret doors!

Incidentally, there are other Ripperological connections with the Amarna period, as in the famous quote: "I am down on Horemheb, and shan't quit until Ay do get buckled". However, the authenticity of that particular letter is disputed.

[curious4]

Have a look at the timelines.

In at least one newspaper interview John Kelly implies they had been back for a bit longer than we believe.
He was also not sure when his boots were pawned.

Stride and Kidney were living in Dorset Street when Liz left for good.

In fact,all three remaining women seemed to be ditching their partners.
Rather like they were expecting to come into some money and leaving their slum life behind them.

Of course Chapman had resided several doors away and Nichols moved next to Eddowes days before she and Kelly went hopping.

Nichols and Chapman were murdered close to the London Hospital.

Of course these women did not know each other and Jack had no anatomical or surgical expertise.

Hello DJA

I would dispute the fact that Liz had left her partner permanently. She had left him before and to me she fits the pattern of a "periodic" drunk, that is one who has (sometimes long) periods of sobriety but in between goes on a bender. Kidney says this: "it was the drink made her leave". From my knowledge of this condition within my own family, the person tries to get away from anyone who might stop them getting drunk.

Best wishes
C4

[DJA]

I would dispute the fact that Liz had left her partner permanently.

Um....she had. Believe me. Very permanently.

[Pierre]

This is a costermongers barrow of the period.



So how would you get several of these into that front room without removing the front of the building?

Hi,

I see a picture of a costermongers barrow and hear some argument to which I could agree.

But I see no reference to a source for the hypothesis of 26 Dorset Street having large gates and later on - when? - getting windows.

I would really appreciate such a reference if you have it.

Regards Pierre

[David Orsam]

I donīt read Davidīs posts anymore.

How odd because you certainly read my post #54 in this thread, you know, the one you quoted and replied to in #57 when you said (wrongly):

'Surgeons donīt advice police, David.

Police advice divisional surgeons.'

It's perfectly obvious why you have stopped replying to my posts since then.

[David Orsam]

The statement was (according to Wickerman in post 73):

""...Dr Phillips asked me not to force the door but to test the dogs if they were coming,.."
Abberline, at the inquest"

You originally said: "The point is that there must have been a reason for the statement of Abberline at the inquest ".

If the statement of Abberline you were referring to was: 'Dr Phillips asked me not to force the door but to test the dogs if they were coming,.." then of course there was a reason for it. He was explaining why there was a delay in entering the room; the fear being that they could put the dogs off the scent, so they waited outside.

[David Orsam]

1. What evidence do you have for your ideas about this door? is this more private data?

Evidence: MJK1, MJK3, Goad Fire Insurance plan, drawing showing windows in number 26 boarded up.

Indications in line with these sources: police not able to get into the room, talk of "locked" door, "missing key", talk of "waiting" outside the room for more than 2 hours because of "blood hounds" that didnīt arrive.

I'm afraid this simply shows your misunderstanding of the evidence. The police were always able to get into the room if they wanted to, despite the door being locked. There was never any talk of a "missing key" prior to entering, that came later, from Barnett. There was no "talk" of waiting outside the room for more than two hours for bloodhounds that didn't arrive. That is simply what happened. The reason for the bloodhounds not arriving is well known and you should know it.

None of what you have stated is evidence of the door being barricaded, for the simple reason there is none and the evidence is perfectly clear that it was not.