The attack on Swedish housewife Mrs Meike Dalal on Thursday, September 7th 1961

[cobalt]

Here is the link with Bert Balmer, Merseyside Police, waxing lyrical on raiding opium dens in the 1930s. It starts at (17.00.)

He makes no mention of the Cameo Murder or the Devlin/Burns case. Nor does he venture into Hanratty territory.

Later he extols the virtue of dogs in controlling the criminal classes (30.43) and finishes with some observations on the religious tensions within the city (33.29)

You are free to draw your own conclusions regarding the man from this brief extract. Balmer was later succeeded as Liverpool Police Chief by Kenneth Oxford. Anyone with an interest in social and cultural history will probably watch the entire video from start to finish.

If the link does not work then type in Liverpool Singing City (1965).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fvF8QWFI3Xk

[Graham]

Quite apart from the ludicrous idea that they would have been volunteering ,as receivers of stolen goods from Hanratty, for a hefty prison sentence in doing so .Hanratty was in a no win situation from the moment he rang up Acott and later trying to get his ex prisoner friends to come court and say they were receiving stolen goods from him to make money from.They would have gone straight to jail.

Hi Nats,

in fact one of JH's Liverpool 'pals', Terence McNally, was interviewed by Gillbanks after JH had passed the man's name to his defence. Unfortunately, McNally refused to discuss anything with Gillbanks, coming out with the odd phrase "If Hanratty doesn't open up, why should I?" Sherrard must have felt that McNally's potential evidence could be of great help to the defence, as a subpoena was served upon him. McNally, who to coin a phrase did his nut, insisted that he hadn't set eyes on JH since he left Lewes Prison four years previously. He also stated that he worked for Dunlop Rubber and during the week commencing 21 August he was on 7.00am to 3.00pm shift, apart from which insisting that he had nothing whatsoever to do with the Scotland Road area of Liverpool. This, along with Gillbanks' failure to find any other witnesses or evidence that JH has actually stayed in Liverpool as he claimed, effectively killed the 'Liverpool Alibi' stone dead. And JH realised this. The trial began on 22 January, and at some point over the next three days JH admitted to Sherrard that his story of 'the three men in Liverpool' was a lie, and that he had instead spent the night of the murder in Rhyl.

Seems to me that the men in Liverpool whom JH claimed would provide him with an alibi were indeed men he had known, however briefly, at some time in the fairly recent past; he remembered their names, and used them to provide what he hoped would be some verisimilitude to his alibi story. He further claimed that McNally fenced some jewellery for him on 24 August, which led to the police searching McNally's home on the night of his, JH's, arrest; this must have pleased McNally no end.

The simple explanation as to why JH never mentioned Rhyl to the Frances is that he was never there at the crucial time.

Graham

[Sherlock Houses]

A6 Murder/Cameo Murders

Here is the link with Bert Balmer, Merseyside Police, waxing lyrical on raiding opium dens in the 1930s. It starts at (17.00.)

He makes no mention of the Cameo Murder or the Devlin/Burns case. Nor does he venture into Hanratty territory.

Later he extols the virtue of dogs in controlling the criminal classes (30.43) and finishes with some observations on the religious tensions within the city (33.29)

You are free to draw your own conclusions regarding the man from this brief extract. Balmer was later succeeded as Liverpool Police Chief by Kenneth Oxford. Anyone with an interest in social and cultural history will probably watch the entire video from start to finish.

If the link does not work then type in Liverpool Singing City (1965).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fvF8QWFI3Xk

By all accounts Herbert Balmer was a notoriously corrupt police officer who seemingly would go to any length to procure a conviction.

The Cameo Cinema murders of March 19th 1949 remains an intriguing and fascinating case. George Skelly wrote an excellent book about it in 2001 called "The Cameo Conspiracy".
There are several striking similarities between this case and the A6 Murder case, not least of which are the following ......

1] Alleged confessions [in prison] to the Cameo murders by both George Kelly and Charles Connolly to a prison grass, Robert Graham.
Alleged confession [in prison] to the A6 murder by James Hanratty to a prison grass, Roy Langdale.

2] Confession to the Cameo murders by Donald Johnson.
Confession to the A6 murder by Peter Alphon.

3] Shady and unsavoury criminal and police characters conniving and contributing to the arrest and subsequent execution of George Kelly and James Hanratty.

4] The Liverpool connection.

5] The prosecuting counsel in the Cameo Murders Trial, William Gorman was to become the presiding judge 12 years later in the A6 Murder Trial.
[Alarm bells must have rung loudly in his ears when confronted with the evidence of Langdale !!]

The following Liverpool Echo link of April 2008 gives a brief outline of the Cameo Murders. It is mistaken in stating that Kelly was hanged on February 8th 1950. He was in fact hanged on March 28th 1950, twelve months after the murders were committed.

http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liverpool-news/murder-most-foul-innocent-man-3488195

[Spitfire]

The simple explanation as to why JH never mentioned Rhyl to the Frances is that he was never there at the crucial time.

Indeed and from that the jury inferred that he was the Dorney Reach abductor and subsequent murderer of Michael Gregsten. Everybody has to be somewhere and Hanratty was not in Liverpool on his own admission and the jury did not believe he was in Rhyl, when you eliminate the impossible, whatever is left is the truth.

Sherrard abandoned the Rhyl alibi for the 1962 appeal and the subsequent DNA tests have proved that to be the correct decision. As Sherrard said the wrong man was not hanged, and as Mansfield agreed, Alphon was not the A6 Murderer. Hanratty was.

Most other aspects of the A6 case fall into place with Hanratty as the murderer. The spent cartridges cases found in the room of which he was the last occupant, found near the bed he slept in on 21 August 1961. The DNA on the hankie and the knickers fragment are entirely consistent with Hanratty being the murderer.

I am not sure why the Liverpool 'wide boys' failure to give Hanratty an alibi should be a topic for discussion. Is it now said that Hanratty was in Liverpool and not in Rhyl at the time of the commission of the crime?

I would have thought that any right thinking wide boy would not want to give Hanratty an alibi for the disgusting, shameful and cowardly crimes which he had committed, irrespective of whoever was in charge of the Liverpool bizzies.

P.s. Cobalt, I think it is Knotty Ash not Notty Ash.

[Natalie Severn]

Hi Nats,

He further claimed that McNally fenced some jewellery for him on 24 August, which led to the police searching McNally's home on the night of his, JH's, arrest; this must have pleased McNally no end.

The simple explanation as to why JH never mentioned Rhyl to the Frances is that he was never there at the crucial time.

Graham

Thanks Graham. The police interview with McNally confirms my personal opinion that Hanratty did fence stolen goods on Thursday 24th August to McNally after three days looking about on the bus to Rhyl ,at the B&B with Mrs Jones for first one night then two that he did look for 'John' ,Terry Evans when he arrived hoping he might be able to fence the gold watch but after thinking about it properly lost his nerve over Terry -deciding Liverpool Terry was the better bet -so he messed about instead at the amusement arcades and one armed bandits that still line the front at Rhyl -all near Woolworths - something like embarrassment /loss of face took over ? -like having left the job Terry had bothered to find for him at the fairground and walking off in Terry's new shoes "borrowed" the previous month --- typical Hanratty behaviour . So he went back to Liverpool and found the other Terry [McNally] had 'scored' so delighted he telegrammed the France's at 8.40 pm .Back for business tomorrow was the implication of sending that message -been a clever boy......

[Graham]

Nats,

McNally stated extremely firmly that he hadn't set eyes on Hanratty since he left Lewes Prison four years previously, and this must have been accepted by the police as they didn't try to nail him for receiving. However, McNally was only one of the 'Liverpool Three' that Hanratty spoke of, so it is possible, though not probable, that it was one of the other two who fenced for him on 24 August. Yet he named McNally, who completely denied it. Again, there is no concrete proof that Hanratty was anywhere near Liverpool at the critical time; had there been, we wouldn't be discussing him, and the A6 murder would be marked down as 'unsolved'.

Graham

[NickB]

The main item of jewellery he was trying to sell was the ring which he sold in London when he returned.

When he went to Liverpool on 7-Oct-61 he still did not stay with friends but booked into a bed and breakfast in New Brighton.

her granddaughter quite sure it was on the Tuesday unlike Mrs Dunwoody who decided it must have been the Monday after several 'discussions 'with policemen

Actually her granddaughter also thought it was the Monday (even Foot admits this) and Mrs Dunwoody said “it was definitely the Monday” in her very first statement on 17-Oct-61. Foot claims she told the Daily Herald something different but if this true (rather than something Don Smith said after ‘discussions’ with Foot) why doesn’t he quote from the article?

sent the telegram instead of a postcard from the PO area at the side of St George's Hall Liverpool around 8pm on 24th August i.e. at the very last minute before he boarded the overnight train from Liverpool Lime Street

If he did this he would have arrived at the France’s before the telegram.

[Natalie Severn]

Nats,

McNally stated extremely firmly that he hadn't set eyes on Hanratty since he left Lewes Prison four years previously, and this must have been accepted by the police as they didn't try to nail him for receiving. However, McNally was only one of the 'Liverpool Three' that Hanratty spoke of, so it is possible, though not probable, that it was one of the other two who fenced for him on 24 August. Yet he named McNally, who completely denied it. Again, there is no concrete proof that Hanratty was anywhere near Liverpool at the critical time; had there been, we wouldn't be discussing him, and the A6 murder would be marked down as 'unsolved'.

Graham

No Graham that is not my understanding of what happened .McNally when first approached by Gillbanks on 23rd October agreed he did know Hanratty "arguing that if Hanratty was not willing to open up, why should he? He only changed his tune when Sherrard wished to subpoena him -[thereby getting McNally in court where he undoubtedly would be scared Hanratty would be "opening up" to the court that McNally was one of his fences / dealers in stolen goods ]...so of course McNally would resist that either by lying or by any other means necessary as it would end in him going to prison for fencing! Sherrard was very disappointed to say the least because he would have not only have had Mrs Dunwoody , Robert Kempt and Usher from Liverpool able to say they had sighted Hanratty but McNally too. [btw Sherrard maintained Mrs Dunwoody was a very strong witness indeed-so did Acott].
So there we have three people from Liverpool plus Mrs Dunwoody's granddaughter AND the granddaughter's friend Linda who told police later that it was the Tuesday when she had returned to the shop with Mrs Dunwoody's granddaughter . Also importantly ,remember-the police never found one single person who believe they had seen Hanratty near Taplow or Slough on Tuesday 22nd August 1961

[NickB]

So there we have three people from Liverpool plus Mrs Dunwoody's granddaughter AND the granddaughter's friend Linda

I thought Linda did not see the visitor that Mrs Dinwoodie and her granddaughter saw, even though she was standing in front of the counter.

If Linda did not see him, and he did not see her, this is further evidence that he did not call on the Tuesday

[moste]

Hi Spitty..P.s. Cobalt, I think it is Knotty Ash not Notty Ash.
No its not its 'Ashy Knot." Friggin PIT NICKING AGAIN!.

[Sherlock Houses]

If Linda did not see him, and he did not see her, this is further evidence that he did not call on the Tuesday

How do you work that one out ?

Why would Hanratty notice or remember Linda when it was Barbara who was behind the counter helping her grandmother, Mrs. Dinwoodie, during a busy period ? The Liverpool Echos had not long been delivered to the shop and Linda Walton was just one of several people on the customer side of the shop counter.

[moste]

Indeed and from that the jury inferred that he was the Dorney Reach abductor and subsequent murderer of Michael Gregsten. Everybody has to be somewhere and Hanratty was not in Liverpool on his own admission and the jury did not believe he was in Rhyl, when you eliminate the impossible, whatever is left is the truth.

Sherrard abandoned the Rhyl alibi for the 1962 appeal and the subsequent DNA tests have proved that to be the correct decision. As Sherrard said the wrong man was not hanged, and as Mansfield agreed, Alphon was not the A6 Murderer. Hanratty was.

Most other aspects of the A6 case fall into place with Hanratty as the murderer. The spent cartridges cases found in the room of which he was the last occupant, found near the bed he slept in on 21 August 1961. The DNA on the hankie and the knickers fragment are entirely consistent with Hanratty being the murderer.

I am not sure why the Liverpool 'wide boys' failure to give Hanratty an alibi should be a topic for discussion. Is it now said that Hanratty was in Liverpool and not in Rhyl at the time of the commission of the crime?

I would have thought that any right thinking wide boy would not want to give Hanratty an alibi for the disgusting, shameful and cowardly crimes which he had committed, irrespective of whoever was in charge of the Liverpool bizzies.

P.s. Cobalt, I think it is Knotty Ash not Notty Ash.

Reading your whole post confirms to most people with a jot of common sense that Hanratty was Framed!
And what does this mean?"eliminate the impossible, whatever is left is the truth."?

[Sherlock Houses]

Hi Spitty..P.s. Cobalt, I think it is Knotty Ash not Notty Ash.
No its not its 'Ashy Knot." Friggin PIT NICKING AGAIN!.

It's not Nottingham, Knutsford nor Notting Hill then ?

PS. Did you get PM I sent last week ?

[Natalie Severn]

I thought Linda did not see the visitor that Mrs Dinwoodie and her granddaughter saw, even though she was standing in front of the counter.

If Linda did not see him, and he did not see her, this is further evidence that he did not call on the Tuesday

I don't accept that at all. Linda remembered the day she went shopping in Central Liverpool with Barbara Mrs Dunwoody's granddaughter and she remembered it was definitely Tuesday.True she did not remember Hanratty but then why should she?She was probably thinking about the material they had bought to make things with or getting herself a lolly. But Barbara remembered so did her grandmother .The important thing here is that Linda was sure it was on the Tuesday.

[Natalie Severn]

The main item of jewellery he was trying to sell was the ring which he sold in London when he returned.

If he did this he would have arrived at the France’s before the telegram.

He arrived very early but waited a few hours -when he arrived Carole France had
already gone to work. There were loads of Breakfast places at Victoria and Euston so he probably treated himself to a full English breakfast.