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  • Originally posted by MayBea View Post
    All the logic and science in the world can still be logically circumvented with some mental flexibility. There's no need to dismiss anything at any point short of a full solution.

    But if you did want to eliminate all Royal Conspiracy theories, you would have to prove that:

    A. the unknowns, Jack the Ripper and Mary Jane Kelly, had absolutely no connection to the Royals or the Masons.

    And if one of the other or both are connected to the Royals or Masons, then your only recourse is to prove:

    B. their connection to the Royals or Masons had nothing to do with the murders, even as a motivating factor for the murders and/or the M.O.

    Reducing any one of the theories to it's perceived weakest point and then demolishing it doesn't effect anything because the theory doesn't hinge on any one point, except the ones mentioned above.
    I like the way you put that.

    Comment


    • There has been a lot of controversy over the years about police officers rolling up their trouser legs and becoming masons I don't think such a notorious criminal like Jack the ripper would have been let off because his fellow masons in the police wanted to do him a favour but I think we would be very stupid not to think that some criminals havnt been investigated properly by their brother masons.
      Three things in life that don't stay hidden for to long ones the sun ones the moon and the other is the truth

      Comment


      • Originally posted by MayBea View Post
        All the logic and science in the world can still be logically circumvented with some mental flexibility. There's no need to dismiss anything at any point short of a full solution.

        But if you did want to eliminate all Royal Conspiracy theories, you would have to prove that:

        A. the unknowns, Jack the Ripper and Mary Jane Kelly, had absolutely no connection to the Royals or the Masons.

        And if one of the other or both are connected to the Royals or Masons, then your only recourse is to prove:

        B. their connection to the Royals or Masons had nothing to do with the murders, even as a motivating factor for the murders and/or the M.O.

        Reducing any one of the theories to it's perceived weakest point and then demolishing it doesn't effect anything because the theory doesn't hinge on any one point, except the ones mentioned above.
        And of course to prove the theory you need to prove these things, I have yet to see anything even remotely approaching proof that MJK had any connection to the Royals.

        And considering many dispute that whe was even named MJK it seems they have a lot of work ahead of them.
        G U T

        There are two ways to be fooled, one is to believe what isn't true, the other is to refuse to believe that which is true.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by GUT View Post
          And of course to prove the theory you need to prove these things, I have yet to see anything even remotely approaching proof that MJK had any connection to the Royals.

          And considering many dispute that whe was even named MJK it seems they have a lot of work ahead of them.
          Question about the "MANY DISPUTE" comment. How is it that those many disputes require no proof, yet the other side of the theory does? You are willing to CONSIDER the side you think most probable, even without hard proof. That's pretty much what the rest of us are doing. We're more alike than we are different, I think.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by London Fog View Post
            Question about the "MANY DISPUTE" comment. How is it that those many disputes require no proof, yet the other side of the theory does? You are willing to CONSIDER the side you think most probable, even without hard proof. That's pretty much what the rest of us are doing. We're more alike than we are different, I think.
            They do require proof, at least to me, and so far none forthcoming.
            G U T

            There are two ways to be fooled, one is to believe what isn't true, the other is to refuse to believe that which is true.

            Comment


            • When has having no proof ever stopped anyone proposing a theory about this case.
              Three things in life that don't stay hidden for to long ones the sun ones the moon and the other is the truth

              Comment


              • Originally posted by MayBea View Post
                All the logic and science in the world can still be logically circumvented with some mental flexibility. There's no need to dismiss anything at any point short of a full solution.

                But if you did want to eliminate all Royal Conspiracy theories, you would have to prove that:

                A. the unknowns, Jack the Ripper and Mary Jane Kelly, had absolutely no connection to the Royals or the Masons.

                And if one of the other or both are connected to the Royals or Masons, then your only recourse is to prove:

                B. their connection to the Royals or Masons had nothing to do with the murders, even as a motivating factor for the murders and/or the M.O.

                Reducing any one of the theories to it's perceived weakest point and then demolishing it doesn't effect anything because the theory doesn't hinge on any one point, except the ones mentioned above.
                Since when is the burden of proof on those to prove that something doesn't exist?
                Last edited by Harry D; 02-28-2015, 04:33 PM.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by pinkmoon View Post
                  When has having no proof ever stopped anyone proposing a theory about this case.
                  Theory is not a dirty word. If there were no such thing as theory, there would probably be fewer cases solved than there are.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by MayBea View Post

                    But if you did want to eliminate all Royal Conspiracy theories, you would have to prove that:

                    A. the unknowns, Jack the Ripper and Mary Jane Kelly, had absolutely no connection to the Royals or the Masons.

                    And if one of the other or both are connected to the Royals or Masons, then your only recourse is to prove:

                    B. their connection to the Royals or Masons had nothing to do with the murders, even as a motivating factor for the murders and/or the M.O.
                    Still somehow believing in a Royal/Masonic conspiracy despite all previous versions of the theory being convincingly discredited, is in my opinion a futile attempt to reinvent a wheel that's best left alone, given what we know of serial killers, and how that knowledge has been (and pretty much has to be) ignored by Royal Conspiracists. The above quoted criteria supposedly needed to prove the nonexistence of a Royal Conspiracy would also be the same criteria needed to disprove a conspiracy involving the Salvation Army, or the Royal Geographical Society, the Fenian Brotherhood, or whatever group of people you'd like to hang with the name 'Jack the Ripper'. It's the old game of 'I have a suspect, there's no proof he didn't do it, so I'm right', this time assigned to a group of people rather than an individual. Not convincing at all.

                    JM

                    Comment


                    • "When you take away the rest of all possible Royal Ripper Consipiracies
                      You are left with the best of all possible Royal Ripper Conspiracies!"

                      "Sir William Gull Pangloss"

                      [With apologies to Voltaire, Leonard Bernstein, and others.]

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by London Fog View Post
                        Well, at least you're admitting that such rituals did exist.



                        At least three of them.
                        Well, in that case the Ripper couldn't tell his left from his right or remember the Masonic ritual, as, with Chapman only her small intestines, not her heart, were thrown over her RIGHT shoulder, (contrary to the ritual) attached by a cord to the rest of the intestines.

                        With Eddowes, again 'the intestines were drawn out to a large extent' according to Dr Brown 'and placed over the RIGHT shoulder...' 'A piece of two feet was quite detached from the body and placed between the body and the left arm, apparently by design.' Not over the left shoulder. Neither Chapman's nor Eddowes' heart was missing.

                        A strange sort of arrangement for such a keen Freemason, eager to leave signals for his fellow masons. Just right, however, for a non-mason serial killer who like to grub about inside dead women's bodies.
                        Last edited by Rosella; 02-28-2015, 09:41 PM.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Rosella View Post
                          Well, in that case the Ripper couldn't tell his left from his right or remember the Masonic ritual, as, with Chapman only her small intestines, not her heart, were thrown over her RIGHT shoulder, (contrary to the ritual) attached by a cord to the rest of the intestines.

                          With Eddowes, again 'the intestines were drawn out to a large extent' according to Dr Brown 'and placed over the RIGHT shoulder...' 'A piece of two feet was quite detached from the body and placed between the body and the left arm, apparently by design.' Not over the left shoulder. Neither Chapman's nor Eddowes' heart was missing.
                          Who said they had to do them all that way? The fact that a few of them WERE done that way could not be ignored by any thinking person.

                          Originally posted by Rosella View Post
                          A strange sort of arrangement for such a keen Freemason, eager to leave signals for his fellow masons. Just right, however, for a non-mason serial killer who like to grub about inside dead women's bodies.
                          So you're an expert on masonic killings, and non-masonic killings too? Wow, I can't help but wonder why such a mind can't tell us who the Ripper was.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by jmenges View Post
                            Still somehow believing in a Royal/Masonic conspiracy despite all previous versions of the theory being convincingly discredited, is in my opinion a futile attempt to reinvent a wheel that's best left alone, given what we know of serial killers, and how that knowledge has been (and pretty much has to be) ignored by Royal Conspiracists. The above quoted criteria supposedly needed to prove the nonexistence of a Royal Conspiracy would also be the same criteria needed to disprove a conspiracy involving the Salvation Army, or the Royal Geographical Society, the Fenian Brotherhood, or whatever group of people you'd like to hang with the name 'Jack the Ripper'. It's the old game of 'I have a suspect, there's no proof he didn't do it, so I'm right', this time assigned to a group of people rather than an individual. Not convincing at all.

                            JM
                            I keep hearing about this convincingly discrediting evidence against this theory, but for some strange reason I never see it. Maybe it got lost.

                            Comment


                            • London Fog

                              since when you are told something about the theory that discredits it, you say something like

                              Who said they had to do them all that way? The fact that a few of them WERE done that way could not be ignored by any thinking person.
                              Please spell out just what theory you are such a supporter of, you can't support all the Royal Theories because they are all different, so please tell us

                              Which victims
                              Who killed them
                              Where they were killed
                              Why


                              You might also care to tell us what your standard of proof is, beyond reasonable doubt, on the balance of probabilities, it is a hypothesis consistent with the evidence, it just sounds good to me, or what.

                              Maybe then people can engage in sensible debate with you.
                              G U T

                              There are two ways to be fooled, one is to believe what isn't true, the other is to refuse to believe that which is true.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by GUT View Post
                                London Fog

                                since when you are told something about the theory that discredits it, you say something like



                                Please spell out just what theory you are such a supporter of, you can't support all the Royal Theories because they are all different, so please tell us

                                Which victims
                                Who killed them
                                Where they were killed
                                Why


                                You might also care to tell us what your standard of proof is, beyond reasonable doubt, on the balance of probabilities, it is a hypothesis consistent with the evidence, it just sounds good to me, or what.

                                Maybe then people can engage in sensible debate with you.
                                Have you not read my posts up to this point? You are welcome to go back and read them. There's where you will find your answer.

                                I say that some of the bodies were displayed that way because they actually were. Can't beat that for factual statement.

                                Comment

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