Those Damned Cachous

[Batman]

Hello Batman. Thanks.

Why should he shout? The fracas, itself, frightened Schwartz away.

Cheers.
LC

He was only walking away. When Lipski was shouted out, a man with a pipe started moving towards Schwartz (basically taking the same path) and Schwartz started running away. He couldn't say if the man was following him, but since there was no altercation between them, its more likely that this guy was doing what Schwartz was doing... getting the hell out of dodge in a dangerous part of London.

[Batman]

To my mind, the most logical reason Schwartz was kept secret is because he was their best bet at catching the Ripper at that time. The City allowed their best witness (Lawende) to give evidence, but kept that evidence truncated.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

This is also true. We have examples of the investigators withholding information from the general public by supressing parts of testimonies or not making them public at all.

[RockySullivan]

It schwartz wasn't being followed why did pipeman stop at the railway arch? (Again the same railway arches where LIPSKI appeared with the pinchin torso) ripperology should be called coincidenciogy

[RockySullivan]

Racism & hatred seem to resonate with serial killers. Since the liz stride & eddowes murder were commuted near Jewish clubs with Graffito at Jewish homes doesn't logic dictate that BS man was likely the ripper since lipski shows he anti-Semitic

The less likely possibility is that pipeman saw the BS attack at the club as a way to use the anti semitism as a red herring and used anti semitism to try to frame BS man...but that's a bit far fetched

[Wickerman]

In 1888 interpreters would have been well established in London for police investigations etc. However the question is, why didn't Schwartz appear at the 'inquest'?

So do we have examples of interpreters at inquests at the time? If you can find examples of that, then you have a case maybe. However it seems to me that interpreters where not brought into these inquests to interpret any witness testimony.

But the quote indicates the interpreter, Mr Savage, was present in the court.

Here it is worded differently, but the meaning is the same.
"The inspector and the interpreter at the court were permitted admission to the prisoner's cell to put certain questions to him."

Why would you suggest interpreters were not allowed in court?
What on earth was he there for...

[Batman]

But the quote indicates the interpreter, Mr Savage, was present in the court.

Here it is worded differently, but the meaning is the same.
"The inspector and the interpreter at the court were permitted admission to the prisoner's cell to put certain questions to him."

Why would you suggest interpreters were not allowed in court?
What on earth was he there for...

I didn't suggest interpreters were not allowed in court. In this case you had a man in custody for attacking someone. That man needed an interpreter and got one.

What I am suggesting is that at an 'inquest' there seems to be an absense of any translators in action translating. If one can show they are there, then it might debunk the idea that Schwartz didn't go to the inquest because they had his statement translated in an official police document.

[Wickerman]

Here is an example of an Inquest where an Interpreter was involved in the questioning.

"Evidence of identification was given through an interpreter..."

[Wickerman]

"It sometimes happens that witnesses acquainted with the circumstances relative to the inquiry are foreigners, and are unaquainted with the English language: such must be examined through the medium of an interpreter, who must be sworn well and truly to interpret as well as the oath as the questions which shall be put to the witness by the court and jury, and the answers which the witnesses shall give."
The Coroners Act, 1887, S 4 (1) Witnesses for Defence 35.

[lynn cates]

reasons

Hello Rocky.

"It Schwartz wasn't being followed why did pipeman stop at the railway arch?"

Perhaps he was tired and felt safely far from the fracas? Or, he may have lived in that neighbourhood (if he actually existed).

Cheers.
LC

[RockySullivan]

Hello Rocky.

"It Schwartz wasn't being followed why did pipeman stop at the railway arch?"

Perhaps he was tired and felt safely far from the fracas? Or, he may have lived in that neighbourhood (if he actually existed).

Cheers.
LC

Maybe LC but why does the word lipski show up again at the arches with the torso?

[lynn cates]

slur

Hello Rocky. Thanks.

If, as Abberline suggested, "Lipski" were a racial slur, then I invite the following comparison. Look for graffiti in a large city. How often will you find, say, the N word included?

Cheers.
LC

[Michael W Richards]

To my mind, the most logical reason Schwartz was kept secret is because he was their best bet at catching the Ripper at that time. The City allowed their best witness (Lawende) to give evidence, but kept that evidence truncated.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

That's your most logical reason why Schwartz was absent in all possible forms from the Inquest?

I assume you meant to say that its your second most logical reason, since the absolute most logical position for an answer here is that Israel or his story was in no way connected to the Inquest, based on all existing records of it.

But at least this new, obviously very well informed poster Batman, sided with you.

[RockySullivan]

Hello Rocky. Thanks.

If, as Abberline suggested, "Lipski" were a racial slur, then I invite the following comparison. Look for graffiti in a large city. How often will you find, say, the N word included?

Cheers.
LC

Hi LC, I don't often come across the n word as part of a graffiti in my large city, thankfully, though I understand your point. Didn't the police originally look into the possibility that Lipski was the killers name? If that was the case it would imply that lipski wasn't written all over the walls of London. How close was the railway arch where the torso was found to the railway arch where pipeman followed lipski too? I've read the railway arch Schwartz described was possibly Pinchin, though it's unclear exactly where. Anything known about Schwartz whereabouts after the rippings? Could the torso have been on his route to work? If pipeman or BSman was the ripper, Schwartz was the one man who could potentially identify them. I can't help but think the lipski graffiti is connected to the stride murder.

[Natasha]

Do you think the ripper was sexually attracted to the disfigurement caused by the mutilations, having a fetish for bloody body parts, cut up sex organs, opened intenstines & fecal matter etc. he did smear the feces and the way he placed the intestines over the shoulder point to that. Does this make the ripper a necrophile?

Jack might have been an a erotophonophiliac, although I don't think the actual killing turned him on. I don't believe he was a necrophiliac though, as he doesn't appear to have had sex with his victims as they were dying or dead.

I think that perhaps the mutilations were inflicted because the ripper may have experienced sexual attraction for Eddowes and Kelly. If he despised all of his victims and wanted to annihilate all of them because for example he was disgusted by them, then feeling any lust for them would go against his whole reason for killing them. Just an idea.

Hello Rocky.

". . . could Stride have been trying to leave a clue to the identity of her killer by clenching on to the cachous?"

Clue about what? Perhaps the assailant had bad breath?

Cheers.
LC

I remember someone mentioned that the cachous were left with Stride as a joke about her breath

Again, the real issue with the cachous (as Lynn points out) is how did they withstand Liz being thrown about by the B.S. man? If we conclude that she did not have them in her hand at that time then what does that tell us?

c.d.

As I have mentioned in another thread:

Blackwell: "The packet was lodged between the thumb and the first finger"

Now judging by that, it seems to me an awkward way to hold an item unless the item was retrieved from a small pocket. Keeping hold of the item, while fighting for your life, in that position would be quite hard I think.

I do think that the killer was the one who gave her the cachous.

Having said that though what about pickpocketing? Could Stride have pick pocketed the killer? It could explain why she was holding the cachous in that way if they weren't placed in her hand after she was killed.

[lynn cates]

Lipski

Hello Rocky. Thanks.

"Didn't the police originally look into the possibility that Lipski was the killers name?"

Yes.

"If that was the case it would imply that Lipski wasn't written all over the walls of London."

Probably not occurring in West London. But all this really implies is that the commissioners, HO, etc. were clueless about the word.

The railway arch? Still debated about location.

Cheers.
LC