Who's talking Cobblers ? John Richardson ?

[RockySullivan]

Hi All,

John Richardson was about as reliable as a ten-bob watch.

Echo, 16th September 1888 -

[ATTACH]13944[/ATTACH]

Four days after the concept of Leather Apron had been laid to rest.

Regards,

Simon

What the bloody hell simon this guy is obviously the ripper! What a looney wonder if there is a connection between the whitehall basement where the tools were kept and the basement at 29 hanbury where he was going to check up! Sounds like he could be torso ripper

[Scott Nelson]

Actually he was probably the guy who slept on the stairs of 29 Hanbury Street in the months prior to Chapman's murder. And he wasn't John Pizer.

[RockySullivan]

he admitted to carrying a knife in his pocket to the crime scene, he's there at the correct time for the murder to occur, he changes his story a while bunch of times, first he just peaked, then he's out on the steps with a knife. He randomly decides to sit down at the murder sites and cut leather of his shoe, but when he brings the knife to the inquest he says it wasnt sharp enough so he cut it off later with a sharper knife. He specifically admits he put the knife in his pocket before going to the murder site....the knife is for cutting carrots to feed his rabbit? This guy makes Lechmere look like a ******* nun....he's the killer

at the inquest he brings a random rusty old knife and the coroner takes his word that's the knife he had so he's not the killer and ruled out? What the hell got some real geniuses working on this case! Could Liz Long have worked with Richardson at spitalfields market? This guy........he lied way more times the Lechmere....how the hell is this guy not suspect number 1 for all of you?

[RockySullivan]

From chapman inquest chandler's testimony about finding Richardson's spring by the body:

"There was also a piece of steel, flat, which has since been identified by Mrs. Richardson as the spring of her son's leggings.
[Coroner] Where was that found? - It was close to where the body had been"

Evidence?

[RockySullivan]

Whitehall inquest:

[Coroner]Do you think previous knowledge was required to get to the vaults? - Yes, I do. I first saw the parcel about half-past two o’clock on Tuesday afternoon. I had been in the vaults on the Monday, but had not noticed any smell. I was there in the dark. On Tuesday the first witness called my attention to the parcel. He struck a light, and I saw in the corner what looked like an old coat with a piece of ham inside. I procured a lamp, and the parcel was afterwards got out and opened.
By the Jury: Tools have been stolen on the works. I do not think it possible that any one could have lowered the parcel from Richmond-mews.

Chapman inquest:

John Richardson, of John-street, Spitalfields, market porter, said: I assist my mother in her business. I went to 29, Hanbury-street, between 4,45 a.m. and 4.50 a.m. on Saturday last. I went to see if the cellar was all secure, as some while ago there was a robbery there of some tools. I have been accustomed to go on market mornings since the time when the cellar was broken in.
[Coroner] Was the front door open? - No, it was closed. I lifted the latch and went through the passage to the yard door.
[Coroner] Did you go into the yard? - No, the yard door was shut. I opened it and sat on the doorstep, and cut a piece of leather off my boot with an old table-knife, about five inches long. I kept the knife upstairs at John-street. I had been feeding a rabbit with a carrot that I had cut up, and I put the knife in my pocket. I do not usually carry it there. After cutting the leather off my boot I tied my boot up, and went out of the house into the market. I did not close the back door. It closed itself. I shut the front door.
[Coroner] How long were you there? - About two minutes at most.
[Coroner] Was it light? - It was getting light, but I could see all over the place.
[Coroner] Did you notice whether there was any object outside? - I could not have failed to notice the deceased had she been lying there then. I saw the body two or three minutes before the doctor came. I was then in the adjoining yard. Thomas Pierman had told me about the murder in the market. When I was on the doorstep I saw that the padlock on the cellar door was in its proper place.
[Coroner] Did you sit on the top step? - No, on the middle step; my feet were on the flags of the yard.
[Coroner] You must have been quite close to where the deceased was found? - Yes, I must have seen her.
[Coroner] You have been there at all hours of the night? - Yes.
[Coroner] Have you ever seen any strangers there? - Yes, plenty, at all hours - both men and women. I have often turned them out. We have had them on our first floor as well, on the landing.
[Coroner] Do you mean to say that they go there for an immoral purpose? - Yes, they do.
At this stage witness was despatched by the coroner to fetch his knife.


Is there a connection between the stolen tools at whitehall & 29 hanbury?

[Rosella]

If John Richardson was a killer why would he bring suspicion to himself by mentioning that he sat down with a knife and cut leather off his boot? Surely a murderer wouldn't even mention knives but would just state that he had checked the cellar doors that morning and then left. No-one saw him with a knife so why implicate himself?

[RockySullivan]

If John Richardson was a killer why would he bring suspicion to himself by mentioning that he sat down with a knife and cut leather off his boot? Surely a murderer wouldn't even mention knives but would just state that he had checked the cellar doors that morning and then left. No-one saw him with a knife so why implicate himself?

Because he was worried someone saw him in the yard with a knife. It's the only explanation or why he would change his story from I didn't go down into the yard to...I sat down on the exact spot next to a body with a knife out. If a neighbor said they saw him in the yard with a knife it's the only explanation he could think of. He's in the yard at the murder time with a knife out....he's the ripper

[RockySullivan]

Not to mention he produced a rusty table knife at the inquest and when the coroner said it wasn't sharp enough he claimed he actually used a different knife later at the market. So if he wasn't cutting the leather while sitting on the steps with a knife out (as he would've realized right away the knife wasn't sharp enough) what was he doing? He was mutilating chapman and going through her belongings

[RockySullivan]

Richardson is going into a yard where he doesn't live (his mother does) to check on the basement. What other basements did he check up
On? His mother knew chapman. He admits he's walking around with a knife in his pocket but says he put it there by accident because he doesn't usually walk around with a knife. Accidentally put the knife in his pocket? He's out and about the times the ripper strikes and he walks around with a knife.

I wonder how closely the police check his story about Pearson at the market. Would Pearson have heard about it and told richardson in time for him to get back and see the body or was this story a lie like his first two version of events? No one is placing Lechmere at Nichols murder with a knife but richardson places himself with one at hanbury. I'm flabbergasted that this thread is full of brilliant posters willing to totally ignore the fact that richardson is at the murder spot with a knife out and on third version he admits he's not cutting his shoe!! He was caught in his lies and they unraveled, at the inquest it's clear from the question how suspicious richardson is. If we can find a connection between him and the vault at whitechapel....whose tools were stolen from hanbury? By far richardson is suspect number 1 far above and beyond anyone else. It seems blatantly obvious he killed chapman from his own account.

[RockySullivan]

Actually he was probably the guy who slept on the stairs of 29 Hanbury Street in the months prior to Chapman's murder. And he wasn't John Pizer.

Who was that man scott? Are there any references to him? Richardson is already sitting next to spot where a body should be with a knife out. Why the need to find someone to place there when he's already admitted he's in the right spot, with the weapon, he thought he was caught red-handed!

[RockySullivan]

Richardson says that he cut the leather and tied his boot up, only to later claim he did it later on the market. Why would he stop to cut his boot on the backsteps of his mothers yard?


John Richardson, son of a previous witness, said he lived in John-street, Spitalfields, was a porter in Spitalfields Market, and helped his mother with her packing-case business. About a quarter to five o'clock on Saturday morning he went to 29, Hanbury-street, to see if the cellar where they made the packing cases was all secure, because a few months back somebody broke into it and took two saws and two hammers.

The Coroner-Do you go every morning to see if the cellar is secure?-No; only on market mornings, when I am out early and there's a good lot of people about. I have done so for some months. Is that all you went for?-Yes, sir.

A Juror-His mother said there had been no robberies.

The Witness-She forgot. If you will ask her, you see that it is right.

The Coroner-On other than market mornings do you leave the cellar to take care of itself?-Yes, sir.

Was the front door open on Saturday morning.

The Witness-No, sir; it was shut. So was the back door. I opened it and sat on the back steps to cut a piece of leather off my boot.

What sort of a knife did you use?-One four or five inches long.

What do you usually use that knife for?-I had been using it to cut up a piece of carrot for the rabbit, and I afterwards put it in my pocket.

Do you generally keep it in your pocket?-No.

Why did you put it there on this occasion?-I suppose it was a mistake on my part.

When you had cut the piece of leather off your boot did you leave the house?-Yes. I tied my boot up and went out. I did not close the back door. It closes itself. I shut the front door. I was not in the house more than two minutes at the most. It was not quite light, but enough for me to see.

Did you notice any object in the yard?-No, sir. I could not have failed to notice the deceased if she had been there then.

You have heard where she was found?-Yes, I saw the body.

How came you to see it?-A man in the market told me there had been a murder in Hanbury-street. He did not know at which house. I saw the body from the adjoining yard.

When did you first think your boot wanted cutting?-It hurt my toe and I cut a piece out the day before, but I found I had not cut enough.

Then all you did at Hanbury-street was to cut your boot?-That's all, sir.

Did you go into the yard at all?-Not at all, sir.

I thought you went there to see that the cellar was all right?-Yes; but you don't need to go into the yard to see that. You can see the padlock of the cellar door from the back door steps.

And that was the sole object you had in going there?-Yes, sir.

Did you sit on the top step?-No, the second step.

Where were your feet?-On the flags of the yard.

You must have been quite close to where the body was found?-Quite right, sir. If she had been there at the time I must have seen her.

Have you seen any strangers in the passage of the house?-Yes, lots; plenty of them, at all hours.

Men and women?-Yes; and I have turned them out. I have seen them lying down on the landing.

Do they go there for an immoral purpose?-They do. I have caught them.

A Juror-His mother said she never knew anybody to go for an immoral purpose.

The Coroner-Has your knife been seen by the police?

The Witness-No, sir.

Have you got it with you?-No.

The Coroner-Go and get it.

The witness went away to obey this order, accompanied by a policeman.

Mrs. Richardson, recalled in her son's absence, said she had never had anything stolen from her house.

The Coroner-Have you ever lost anything from the cellar?

The Witness-Oh, yes; I have missed a saw and a hammer, but that is a long time ago. They broke the padlock of the cellar door at the time. My son now comes to see whether it is all right almost every morning before he goes to market.

Do you understand that he goes down to the cellar door?-No, he can see from the steps.

Have you ever had suspicion that the house or the yard was used for immoral purposes?-No, sir.

Have you said something about a leather apron?-Yes, my son always wears a leather apron at his work in the cellar.

It is rather a dangerous thing for anybody to wear a leather apron at present. Have you ever washed your son's apron?

Yes, sir; I washed it last Thursday, because I found it in the cellar mildewed. He had not used it for a month. We are so slack. I put it under the tap in the yard and left it there till Saturday morning, when the police took it away. There was a pan of beautiful clean water under the tap on Saturday morning about half-past seven, after the body was moved. It could not have been disturbed. It was in the same position as on Friday night.

Has your son ever spoken to you about finding strange men on the first floor landing?-No.

http://www.casebook.org/press_reports/daily_news/18880913.html?printer=true

Cadosche: On visiting the house next door to the tragedy, 27, our representative saw Mr. Albert Cadosen [sic], a carpenter, who resides there and works in Shoe-lane, Fleet-street. He says: I was not very well in the night and I went out into the back yard about 25 minutes past five. It was just getting daylight, and as I passed to the back of the yard I heard a sound as of two people up in the corner of the next yard. On coming back I heard some words which I did not catch, but I heard a woman say “No.” Then I heard a kind of scuffle going on, and someone seemed to fall heavily on to the ground against the wooden partition which divided the yard, at the spot where the body was afterwards found. As I thought it was some of the people belonging to the house, I passed into my own room, and took no further notice.19

http://www.casebook.org/dissertations/rip-cadosch.html

What if the "no, no" cadosche heard was Mrs. Richardson talking with her son? could she have helped him move the body against the fence, wash his leather apron (why would they just leave it ina bucket so long, wouldnt he need it?) cover up the crime? It would explain the time of cadosche hearing what he though was "people belonging to the house"....

[RockySullivan]

Actually he was probably the guy who slept on the stairs of 29 Hanbury Street in the months prior to Chapman's murder. And he wasn't John Pizer.

scott do you think the man who threatened Richardson was perhaps the same man who was sleeping on the stairs? Richardson claims the other people around the building know the man. It's such a strange account!

[Rosella]

Oh, so now John Richardson's mother is helping him with the body! And who is this neighbour who supposedly saw John Richardson on the step with a knife? No-one who was called at the inquest, no-one the Press, who were hanging around the area like bees round a honey-pot, ever spoke to. In short, no-one!

[RockySullivan]

Oh, so now John Richardson's mother is helping him with the body! And who is this neighbour who supposedly saw John Richardson on the step with a knife? No-one who was called at the inquest, no-one the Press, who were hanging around the area like bees round a honey-pot, ever spoke to. In short, no-one!

No one needed to see him for him to become paranoid someone had. Why change his story from he only looked at the cellar to he sat on the steps with a knife and cut his boot - to he cut the booth later at work? He was scared someone saw him with the knife....why else would he admit to being out in the yard with one when he never actually cut his boot in the yard? When someone puts themselves at the scene of the crime with a weapon...and they change their story many times....what could possibly elevate them beyond the level the suspicion?

[RockySullivan]

Oh, so now John Richardson's mother is helping him with the body! And who is this neighbour who supposedly saw John Richardson on the step with a knife? No-one who was called at the inquest, no-one the Press, who were hanging around the area like bees round a honey-pot, ever spoke to. In short, no-one!

I know I was talking a bit crazy, but I do wonder if the leather apron might have been freshly washed that morning? Do you think the ripper washes up in the yard before he left?