Did he have anatomical knowledge?

[Wickerman]

Both breasts were more or less removed by circular incisions, the muscle down to the ribs being attached to the breasts. The intercostals between the fourth, fifth, and sixth ribs were cut through and the contents of the thorax visible through the openings.

Between the 4th and 5th and 6th ribs would be around the middle of the ribcage. To get to the heart's top would require going between 1 and 2 or 2 and 3, but even 3 to 4, let alone between 4,5 and 6 would be quite a task.

One possibility I could not make allowances for, which might also explain the lower access noted above is, when you grasp at an organ that is essentially out of sight - how much do you pull towards you?
Surely your natural instinct is to pull down so an entry wound lower down in the ribcage may be explained in that way.
How much elasticity is there in these organs, ie; the heart, when you pull it towards you?
(I hope no-one's having supper...)

What I see in JtRs signature is the idea of someone with medical knowledge and a need to de-feminize prostitutes in a lust killing and is able to speedly conducted organ removal due to that applied anatomical experience.

I agree with the 'apparent anatomical knowledge', though I have reservations about surgical experience.
Surely a practicing surgeon would have both?

I'm not sure this killer was so high up the professional scale...

[Richard Patterson]

Rudolf Virchow's new method of autopsy would have been known to Thompson, a ripper suspect, who carried a dissecting, through his mentor at Owens Medical College. This was lecturer of pathology and infirmary director Doctor Julius Dreschfeld.

Virchow first published an English translation of his German book on post-mortem technique, “Die Sections-Technik im Leichenhause des Charité-Krankenhauses,” in 1880 by Blakiston publishers in Philadelphia. Virchow’s book called, “Post-Mortem Examination with especial reference to medical-legal practice” was 145 pages with illustrations. Virchow encouraged that his students adapt to prevailing conditions and applauded the use, like Thompson, of a single scalpel for dissection. In his 1895 3rd edition of his English translation Virchow wrote,

‘It is scarcely necessary top point out that there are many cases in which deviations from this method are not merely allowable, but also absolutely necessary. The individuality of the case must often determine the plan of the examination….“a good pathological anatomist is perfectly able to dissect all the viscera of one subject, or even of two, with one knife’

Virchow also described severing the heart by holding it from below with the left hand,

‘To bring the heart into the right position for the dissection, when the incisions for the right side are to be made, I extend firmly the forefinger of the left hand, and push it under the heart, and keep it against the base, so that the ventricular portion hangs down over the forefinger, which is as a fulcrum to it.’

Respectfully,

[gnote]

It's like the ripper had the key to be confident enough to make those severe mutilations

I see what you did there. ;-)

[Hunter]

Hi Jon,

...The killers (left?) hand will have grasped the heart from below, yes, but there is no way he could have used the knife (in his right hand?) to sever the arteries & attachments from below at the same time...

Hunters do it that way all the time. Helps keep debris out of the upper body cavity while dragging the animal out. Done by feel. Piece of cake.

[Wickerman]

Hi Jon,



Hunters do it that way all the time. Helps keep debris out of the upper body cavity while dragging the animal out. Done by feel. Piece of cake.

Thankyou Cris.
This scenario though requires our killer to stand by the left side of the bed, reach up/under with one hand and slice the uppermost attachments with the other, while both hands are inside a human ribcage?

A piece of cake?

[Hunter]

Yes...

[Wickerman]

"The intercostals between the 4th, 5th & 6th ribs were cut through & the contents of the thorax visible through the openings."

It is a shame Dr. Bond did not clarify whether he meant the ribs on both sides, or just one side. The intercostals is the space between the ribs, apparently muscles & tissue between those ribs was removed (but not between the other ribs?)
If it was not to enable the killer to see into the thorax, then what was the purpose?

Creating holes between the ribs would enable him to see where to sever the heart as he pulls it down towards the bottom of the thorax.

[Batman]

http://forum.casebook.org/showthread.php?p=323707#post323707

Something you might all be interested in with respect to the stocking cut.

[Hunter]

Hi Jon,

Who knows why the killer did a lot of things? I understand your point about Bond's description of Mary Kelly's rib cage, although considering where the heart is located, the sternum and compactness of the ribs connected to it would still be - to me - an impediment without splitting the breastbone.

All I know is that a large mammal's heart can be removed by circumventing the diaphragm with the knife, firmly grabbing the heart from below with the off hand and cutting the attached vessels with the other while crouched to one side.

In field dressing animals, the windpipe and esophagus are also removed the same way. You just know to cut above where the other hand is placed. Then you simply pull down and out with the off hand.

Maybe everyone wouldn't be capable of doing this, but certain people would. A good piano player doesn't have to look at the keys to hit the right ones.

[Batman]

Does anyone know the make of amputation knife Rumbelow has?

[Robert]

https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=nMXpCwzv6nAC&pg=PT184&lpg=PT184&dq=donald+rumbelow+amputation+knife&source=bl&ots=9mmd02tWBf&sig=SHUG2h7ZQBxtRq4tZQndCbIIDoU&hl=en&sa=X&ei=RdmVVODNGcrg7QbD3YDYDg&ved=0CFAQ6AEwCQ#v=onepage&q=donald%20rumbelow%20amputation%20knife&f=false

[Wickerman]

A good piano player doesn't have to look at the keys to hit the right ones.

No, but he's not likely to lose a finger if he makes a mistake either.

[Batman]

Exsanguination by leg bending

Exsanguination by leg bending

It seems to me JtR knew that by cutting their throats while on the ground, all he had to do was bend their legs upwards to increase the flow of blood out the neck quicker (also by the hearts own pumping action) and therefore have less blood to deal with in his mutilation.

Now the thing is anyone here might say, oh but anyone in a slaughterhouse can do that. However has anyone pointed this out before? I don't think someone who works in a slaughterhouse would be able to think that one out. It seems to me more medical thinking.

[Hunter]

There is no blood when eviscerating anyway until a major vessel is cut, which in the abdomen of a mammal lies next to the spine.

[Trevor Marriott]

There is no blood when eviscerating anyway until a major vessel is cut, which in the abdomen of a mammal lies next to the spine.

When are you going to stop comparing the anatomy of animals to humans!