Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

PC Amos Simpson

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #91
    So, unless I've got it arse about:

    PC 258Y
    Sergeant (reserve) 26YR
    Sergeant 26Y

    Sergeant,after boundary change N Div/Y Div, xxN?


    MrB

    Comment


    • #92
      Originally posted by Monty View Post
      Yes, he would have been assigned a new Divisional collar number from N divisions ledger.

      Monty
      Thanks Monty.

      Just what I was hoping to learn.
      Mick Reed

      Whatever happened to scepticism?

      Comment


      • #93
        I may be wrong but...
        As an Acting Sergeant I don't think Simpson would have been given a new two digit collar number.
        I have been trying to find his N collar number - I'm sure I have seen it somewhere and I am sure it is three digits - and he seems to have been an Acting Sergeant for the whole time he was in N Division.

        I think the confusion over the two digit number is that he was made an officer on the Reserve for a period while he was with Y Division.
        26YR
        Reserve Collar numbers always seem to be two digits followed by the Division letter, followed by R.

        I have been told (by the Met Archive Centre in Fulham) that being made a Reserve Officer was a sign of approval - it was a step awarded to reliable men and they were used for special events, maybe like the Special Patrol Group of years past, rather than it being a part time, semi retirement role (as it is in the Army or example).
        Not that any of this gets anyone any closer to placing him in 1888.

        Comment


        • #94
          Family Ties.

          Just out of interest to get a feel for Amos, he had an uncle Joe Simpson , a bricklayer and his wife Caroline and family living in Mile End Old Town West
          from 1861 census 1 Church Road
          1871 .. 33 Diggon Street
          1881 .. 9 Wilson Street Limehouse
          1891 .. Grays Thurrock, Essex

          It also looks like his brother Charles was a police constable in Greenwich area in 1881. (needs checking but looks like him)
          Brother Joe was a publican in Paddington and brother George lived in st Pancras.

          All seemed to have moved out of London to the suburbs by 1891

          Pat.....................

          Comment


          • #95
            Originally posted by Lechmere View Post
            I may be wrong but...
            As an Acting Sergeant I don't think Simpson would have been given a new two digit collar number.
            I have been trying to find his N collar number - I'm sure I have seen it somewhere and I am sure it is three digits - and he seems to have been an Acting Sergeant for the whole time he was in N Division.

            I think the confusion over the two digit number is that he was made an officer on the Reserve for a period while he was with Y Division.
            26YR
            Reserve Collar numbers always seem to be two digits followed by the Division letter, followed by R.

            I have been told (by the Met Archive Centre in Fulham) that being made a Reserve Officer was a sign of approval - it was a step awarded to reliable men and they were used for special events, maybe like the Special Patrol Group of years past, rather than it being a part time, semi retirement role (as it is in the Army or example).
            Not that any of this gets anyone any closer to placing him in 1888.
            There's a photo of him the the Begg, Fido, Skinner A to Z book. I'm away from home, so can't check it.

            Is it possible to make out a number?
            Mick Reed

            Whatever happened to scepticism?

            Comment


            • #96
              Originally posted by Monty
              Constables mainly had 3 digit collar numbers, sergeants and inspectors 2 digits. The R meant he was in reserve.
              As I said, constables mainly have 3 digits, however its not a hard n fast rule, it depends on what collar number was spare.

              I have seen 2 digit constables, but never 3 digit sergeants.

              As for the reserve being for reliable men, yes that is part true. Once you have. Been a beat constable, or section sergeant, for some years, and done a good job, you then were deemed to have 'paid your dues', and get moved to the cushier reserve post. New recruits would then fill your previous post.

              Beat work was physically hard, young mans game, so this system is understandable.

              Monty
              Last edited by Monty; 09-21-2014, 10:46 PM.
              Monty

              https://forum.casebook.org/core/imag...t/evilgrin.gif

              Author of Capturing Jack the Ripper.

              http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/aw/d/1445621622

              Comment


              • #97
                Originally posted by MrBarnett View Post
                So, unless I've got it arse about:

                PC 258Y
                Sergeant (reserve) 26YR
                Sergeant 26Y

                Sergeant,after boundary change N Div/Y Div, xxN?


                MrB
                I think 26Y is erroneous, and should be 26YR.

                Monty
                Monty

                https://forum.casebook.org/core/imag...t/evilgrin.gif

                Author of Capturing Jack the Ripper.

                http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/aw/d/1445621622

                Comment


                • #98
                  Originally posted by mickreed View Post
                  There's a photo of him the the Begg, Fido, Skinner A to Z book. I'm away from home, so can't check it.

                  Is it possible to make out a number?
                  I've found the image on-line http://www.jtrforums.com/showthread.php?p=231325

                  It's impossible to be sure but it seems to be as though the collar number includes a 5 (or possibly 8) and a 9

                  What's anyone else think?
                  Attached Files
                  Mick Reed

                  Whatever happened to scepticism?

                  Comment


                  • #99
                    Nice work Mick,

                    89 I say.

                    Monty
                    Monty

                    https://forum.casebook.org/core/imag...t/evilgrin.gif

                    Author of Capturing Jack the Ripper.

                    http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/aw/d/1445621622

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Monty View Post
                      Nice work Mick,

                      89 I say.

                      Monty
                      In which case, is it Amos?
                      Mick Reed

                      Whatever happened to scepticism?

                      Comment


                      • These stories always break at the wrong time..Was in Cheshunt for 4 days last month..........

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by mickreed View Post
                          In which case, is it Amos?
                          Now you are forcing my hand Mick,

                          As it stands, for me only, I don't think it is.

                          My reasons are not ascertained, however the helmet plate, to me, is suspicious. It looks like a Hertfordshire Police Helmet Plate instead of a Met one, and as we know that Simpson spent his entire career with the Met, not partly with Herts constabulary as cited in the family story, this draws doubt, for me, on the photo.

                          Monty
                          Attached Files
                          Monty

                          https://forum.casebook.org/core/imag...t/evilgrin.gif

                          Author of Capturing Jack the Ripper.

                          http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/aw/d/1445621622

                          Comment


                          • By comparison, a Met helmet plate of the period.

                            Monty
                            Attached Files
                            Monty

                            https://forum.casebook.org/core/imag...t/evilgrin.gif

                            Author of Capturing Jack the Ripper.

                            http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/aw/d/1445621622

                            Comment


                            • G'day Monty

                              For I am really on the fence on this one.

                              To me the bottom of the emblem looks more like Hertfordshire plate.

                              But the top of the crown looks open like the MET plate.
                              G U T

                              There are two ways to be fooled, one is to believe what isn't true, the other is to refuse to believe that which is true.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by GUT View Post
                                G'day Monty

                                For I am really on the fence on this one.

                                To me the bottom of the emblem looks more like Hertfordshire plate.

                                But the top of the crown looks open like the MET plate.
                                The difference is in the Brunswick star, which is smaller than the Mets, and the larger garter in the Herts plate, making it look rounder.

                                As I said, to me the photo doesn't sit right. I may be wrong.

                                Monty


                                PS Not that the photo has any relevance really.
                                Last edited by Monty; 09-22-2014, 12:25 AM.
                                Monty

                                https://forum.casebook.org/core/imag...t/evilgrin.gif

                                Author of Capturing Jack the Ripper.

                                http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/aw/d/1445621622

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X