A6 Rebooted

[NickB]

After being taught to drive by Bill of Bloxwich, he’d only been free for about 4 months before the 3 year imprisonment. Then after release, in April 1961 he worked with his father for 3 months when the opportunities for driving were limited. The only driving escapade I am aware of after his release is the one with his accomplice Terry in July.

If he was not still a novice driver in August 1961, when had he gained the experience?

He only seems to have started driving seriously in September, getting the Irish licence and the Sunbeam. It would be interesting to know what he asked to be shown at Ryan’s car hire.

[Sherlock Houses]

So you are saying that he had to be shown the basics of a car that was virtually identical to those that he had driven?
The gearlever and forward gears (maybe the reverse gear was in a different position) were the same, and the clutch, brakes and accelerator were in the same position.
So what in your opinion would he need to be shown by Valerie that was different from the other cars that he had driven in order to drive the MM away?

A very good question John, a satisfactory answer to which I very much doubt you will find.

[Graham]

I don't know (and don't much care, to be honest) how old you guys are, but I was driving over 50 years ago. For what it matters, the first car I drove was my dad's Ford Anglia 105E, followed by his Mk1 Cortina. I drove both cars a lot because my dad was semi-mobile and couldn't drive for very long, so I chauffeured him. All the miles I put on both these cars were with L-Plates - I couldn't be bothered to take a test! The Anglia was a decent car, probably the first 'small' car that was any good; the Cortina was even better, large and roomy, and fairly quick. In 1967 my dad went to work abroad, and as I couldn't legally drive his car I bought my first motor, the 1952 Morris Minor I mentioned earlier. Compared with the Fords it was a piece of crap but all I could afford, and believe it or not in 1967 Morris Minors were 'trendy'. Maybe it wasn't as well-maintained as Mike Gregsten's, but even so the gear-stick felt like it was stuck in a boxful of busted bricks. The clutch was "in" or "out" - I never did get the knack of "riding the clutch" in that car. Its performance - well, it didn't really have one. Gregsten's Moggie was a later model than mine, and hopefully more pleasant to drive. Later I had a Morris Traveller for a while, better than my 1952 Moggie, but still fierce on the clutch and what I thought was a poor gear-box. If Hanratty's driving had been mostly with up-market cars, I can fully understand his problems with the Moggie - plus, of course, his mental state at the time. He was probably shaking head to toe. He possibly needed to know where reverse was, not all cars having identical gear-gates. And did he have to lift or depress the gear stick to get reverse, or just shove it in?

It's difficult to convince younger, 'modern' drivers just how phenomenally better modern cars are compared with ones made even 20 years ago.

You asked.

Graham

[Spitfire]

So what in your opinion would he need to be shown by Valerie that was different from the other cars that he had driven in order to drive the MM away?

I think that if one could drive a Jag then one could drive a Moggie Minor, so the answer to your question is nothing or very little.

However the question then becomes, did Hanratty appreciate that Jags and Moggies were basically similar in operation? If he had never driven a Moggie then he might well have anticipated differences and sought the assurance of Valerie as to the car's operation.

[Sherlock Houses]

These are the words of a 25 year old car thief speaking about 2 different cars. Does this sound like someone who had to be shown by Storie, believe it or not, how to even START the car, let alone how the gears worked, where the lights were, etcetera, etcetera etcetera. [Doing an impersonation there of Yul Brynner]

"The car was standing in front of a block of flats. I knew it would be there because the block had no garage space. I think it was a 1956 model. It had a red interior and floor gear-change with overdrive. The petrol gauge on the dashboard wasn't working -- I noticed that because it was so un usual."
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"But please Mick remember it is a very fast car, and whatever you do take care when you drive it. With a car of this standard it is very powerful. I know you are a very good driver and that you will take care of it."

[j.kettle1]

I don't know (and don't much care, to be honest) how old you guys are

I'm glad about that - because it shouldn't matter. But just to give you an idea, I'm retired.

You asked.

But with all due respect, you didn't answer.

[j.kettle1]

I think that if one could drive a Jag then one could drive a Moggie Minor, so the answer to your question is nothing or very little.

Thank you.

However the question then becomes, did Hanratty appreciate that Jags and Moggies were basically similar in operation? If he had never driven a Moggie then he might well have anticipated differences and sought the assurance of Valerie as to the car's operation.

But he'd had five or six hours in the car to observe all that he needed to know.

[Spitfire]

Thank you.



But he'd had five or six hours in the car to observe all that he needed to know.

It was only when he shot Gregsten and then Storie did he have any need to drive the murder car.

If Hanratty had known he was going to kill Gregsten he might have paid more attention.

[j.kettle1]

If Hanratty had known he was going to kill Gregsten he might have paid more attention.

Paid more attention to what exactly?
What was different with respect to the controls of the MM to any other car that he had driven?

[Spitfire]

Paid more attention to what exactly?
What was different with respect to the controls of the MM to any other car that he had driven?

All that he needed to know per your earlier post.

Not a great deal was different, but enough to spook the low witted Hanratty.

[Spitfire]

And as previously mentioned, it was what Hanratty feared to be different rather than any actual differences.

[Graham]

John,

But with all due respect, you didn't answer.

And with all due respect to you, sir, I think I did.

Here we are in another A6 Case circular argument, which will lead to nowhere.
But hey - what else is there to do on a quiet, dull Monday when you're retired (as I am too)?

Graham

[j.kettle1]

Not a great deal was different, but enough to spook the low witted Hanratty.

So what exactly was "enough" to spook him in your opinion?

[Spitfire]

So what exactly was "enough" to spook him in your opinion?

Merely a different car to marque he had driven on previous occasions.

[Sherlock Houses]

James Williams.............

An interesting recent article from the Blackpool Gazette.

http://www.blackpoolgazette.co.uk/ne...time-1-6801834

From the officers who arrested Hanratty.
It seems a little ambiguous to me.
Hope the link works.

I don't quite know what to make of James Williams. Well actually I do but I'll keep it to myself. At the Bedford Trial on January 30th 1962 Detective Constable James Williams gave evidence.
He stated that he and Detective Constable Albert Stillings had arrested Hanratty for housebreaking charges in the Metropilitan area, not in connection with the A6 murder as Hanratty had claimed. This conflicts with what Williams had to say in the very recent Blackpool Gazette article.
Williams and Stillings also stated in that article that Hanratty had told them he was 'Jimmy Ryan' [an alias 'etched' in Williams's memory]. Back in 1962 however Williams claimed that Hanratty had told them he was Peter Bates from Scotland Road, Liverpool.
They also stated that Hanratty's hair was 'bleach blond'. Hanratty's hair at that time was not bleach blond but a vivid orange colour.

As can be seen from the Newspaper article below Williams's testimony at the Bedford Trial makes very interesting reading.