A6 Rebooted

[Graham]

Hi Nick,

I think you're a bit off regarding the old entrance to the field and the modern gated entrance to the Lake - see map attached which shows the Eton College gates at the junction of Marsh Lane and Court Lane. I walked the area about 20 years ago, before the rowing centre and lake were built, and what I understood to be 'the' gate was about half way along Marsh Lane. If my memory is correct, between 1961 and my visit, pillars had been placed either side of the gate. However, I am also sure I recall that there was another entrance to the field, further along Marsh Lane towards the cottages. Also, I'm sure that Huntercombe Lane ran all the way to Court Lane, but some of it appears to have been renamed Lake End. The entire area has changed in the past 20 years, I probably wouldn't recognise it if I made a return visit.

Graham

[NickB]

My placing tallies with poster ‘Steve’ who visited and asked locally. His photo of the spot is on the ‘A6 Murders’ thread, Post 524. I agree with all the reasons he gives and note that he quoted Valerie as saying the first position was ‘just inside the gate’. There was no gate at the other suggested entrance that is often shown.

Also I believe the wire fence to the left of the hedge corresponds to the wire fence in the photo of Valerie, whereas the border fence in the alternative entrance does not start immediately from the left of the entrance. So I believe these photos corroborate Steve.

‘A6 Murders’ thread Post 1071 has a contemporary view from within the cornfield. You can see the houses, 1 Marsh Lane on the left and 3 Marsh Lane to the left of that.

[caz]

Hi All,

Having learned a bit more about the murder weapon from the most recent posts, it all fits quite well as far as I can see.

The first two bullets kill MG in the car (and are found in the car). Four bullets subsequently hit VS, whereupon she hears the gunman reloading, which involves breaking the weapon and discharging the six spent cases (which are later found outside the car).

I don't know which of the bullets paralysed VS, or how much the endorphins released can muffle the impact and pain of further bullets, but isn't it possible that when she heard another three shots fired in her direction, she only imagined they all missed because she felt nothing by that point and was in shock? That would tie in with the actual wounds reported, whether they numbered five, six or seven, and with the gunman only breaking the weapon again when he was safely away from the scene (presumably reloading fully at some point before it was left on the bus).

I can certainly see a cocky petty criminal, who gets hold of a gun for the first time, testing it out on some common ground a day or so before first taking it on an outing, then breaking it in the privacy of his seedy hotel room, spilling the spent cases around and not worrying too much about finding and retrieving each one, since he has given a false name and hasn't used the gun yet for any crime. I'm not sure if this fatal error would have dawned on him immediately after the events of that terrible night.

Any thoughts?

Love,

Caz
X

[caz]

Hi Caz,

Your points are all valid but I have to ask myself - why did he have to have a long journey ahead of him? Why did that car have to travel to London? Why did the gun have to travel to London with the car? Hanratty was a seasoned car thief and could have abandoned the car within a few miles of the layby. He could then have stolen another car to journey into London. He could also have abandoned the gun long before reaching London. Taking the car to London was a huge risk and yet we are asked to believe that he was driving in a manner that drew attention to himself, weaving in and out of traffic and grinning wildly at passing traffic in this blood-splattered car with a gun in his possession.

Hi Julie,

Well the fact is, someone did those crazy things, which rather points to an inexperienced operator who took on much more than he may initially have anticipated, and couldn't or didn't handle it in a way that was likely to end happily for him. Can you honestly see the stupidly reckless character you describe above getting away with something like this? And yet you suggest that's exactly what happened - that the real gunman was never suspected, let alone identified, and the hapless Hanratty paid for it.

Of course, the fact that Valerie was left alive does indicate an inexperienced gunman rather than an assassin - although it seems she had extraordinary determination to survive.

I do wonder if the damage done by the first bullets immobilised her to such an extent that she looked the part without having to 'play' dead. I still think a more experienced gunman would have known to make absolutely sure his only witness was beyond all help before leaving the scene. If he reloaded with another six bullets, and only fired three of them, he could have finished her off with the rest.

Love,

Caz
X

[Graham]

Hi Nick,

yes, I remember Steve very well, and the excellent photos he posted of places connected with the A6. The reason I think 'the' gate was/is further along Marsh Lane is because another old poster, name forgotten, said he'd been and checked it out with locals. Maybe, maybe not. When I was there, the field boundary along Marsh Lane was scruffy, untended and litter-strewn, and whoever had the responsibility of looking after it hadn't. Also, judging by the used condoms, beer cans and other junk I saw inside the gates, it was still a lovers' lane as it was back in 1961. Doubtless since the Rowing Centre opened it's all changed round there. Anyway, it's academic, really.

I visited the area after a meeting with a customer in Slough, and was disappointed to find that The Old Station Inn had been demolished not long before my visit, I believe. I parked by Taplow Station on a stinking hot day and nearly knackered myself doing that walk.

Cheers,

Graham.

[NickB]

isn't it possible that when she heard another three shots fired in her direction, she only imagined they all missed because she felt nothing by that point and was in shock?

In any case she is not sure that all three further shots missed. On the Paul Magee site it is reported this way: “He reloads the gun and fires another three times but Storie feels at least two of those shots go over her head.”

I expect all 6 spent cases were found very easily in the spot on the lay-by where they had been emptied.

[NickB]

Kleinman approached Acott and told him about the sweetshop incident on 13-Oct-61. According to the Appeal Judgement (section 54) in Kleinman’s written report on that day Hanratty asked for ‘Carlton or Talbot Road’.

Retrospective accounts say that Pugh then asked Mrs Cowley about someone asking for ‘Carlton or Tarleton Road’. But if he was using Kieinman’s report surely he would have said ‘Carlton or Talbot Road’.

Mrs Dinwoodie in her statement on 17-Oct-61, said the visitor asked for Tarleton Road. But is there any evidence that the word Tarleton had been used by Hanratty before then?

[Derrick]

...Kleinman approached Acott and told him about the sweetshop incident on 13-Oct-61. According to the Appeal Judgement (section 54) in Kleinman’s written report on that day Hanratty asked for ‘Carlton or Talbot Road’...

Hi Nick

This point was argued out at the committal on 4th December.

The mentioning of the sweetshop, the Lime Street attendant and the boxing match were all put to Acott by Sherrard that Hanratty had in fact mentioned all of these to Acott in the interviews.

Acott said that all of that information had come from the solicitor afterwards.

Sherrard asked Acott;

When did you hear that from his solicitor?

Acott replied;

I believe it was on his first appearance at this court, sir.

Which would have been the 13th October.

(Hanratty was interviewed without a solicitor present and these interviews were admitted as evidence.)

Acott had already been caught out in his lie over the first mention of the three men in Liverpool (via the Daily Mirror's Barry Harding printing the story) so I tend to believe Hanratty here.

Del

[NickB]

Thanks Derrick.

But even if Hanratty had mentioned the sweetshop incident in the interviews with Acott, when Kleinman put it in writing on 13-Oct-61 he would have reported what JH's version of the story was at that stage (i.e. repeated what JH had told Acott).

'Tarleton' is virtually the only point of confluence between the accounts by him and Mrs D of the conversation in the sweetshop. So it would be useful to know if Hanratty only started inserting the word 'Tarleton' into his account after he had discovered that was the road Mrs D said was enquired about.

[j.kettle1]

Blackpool Gazette article.

An interesting recent article from the Blackpool Gazette.

http://www.blackpoolgazette.co.uk/ne...time-1-6801834

From the officers who arrested Hanratty.
It seems a little ambiguous to me.
Hope the link works.

Thanks

John

[NickB]

Good find.

There is a bit more of their interview on another page which clarifies that they spotted him through the cafe window, then went in for a cuppa and a closer look.

They appear to have forgotten he gave his name as Peter Bates.

[Graham]

Interesting stuff, John and Nick. The date of JH's execution is wrong, but so what?

Woffinden has it that on being approached by the two cops, JH said that they were making a 'serious mistake' and that his name was 'Peter Bates'. The two cops say that he told them his name was 'Jimmy Ryan'. So who's correct (not that it matters, but it's little details like this that make the A6 Case so interesting)?

Oddly enough, unlike the proprietors of The Stevonia, I'm paying no more for spuds now than I was 5 years ago.

To get to Blackpool, JH nicked a Jag in London on 7 October and abandoned it in Manchester, according to Woffinden. He then went to Liverpool by train, where he bought flowers for his mother. The assistant at the florist told a passing policeman that she thought she had just served the A6 murderer - Acott claimed that he'd issued a warning to all florists in Liverpool. This incident was in the papers next day, and read by JH (who, I must say, I thought was just about illiterate....but evidently not). JH then changed his clothes and had his hair bleached. He arrived in Blackpool on 11 October, went to a show, a dance, and an amusement arcade, booked into a B&B, and went to The Stevonia for a late meal. Nicked.

Incidentally, it's interesting that JH pinched a Jag. Now over the years I've driven many cars from top-range stuff right down to a rusting Fiat. No doubt about it in my mind, the bigger the car the better - and the easier - it is to drive. Which is perhaps why JH had problems with the Morris Minor - I owned one of these (a 1952 918cc side-valve split windscreen jalopy) in the 1960's, and it was the easiest car in the world to stall.

Graham

[j.kettle1]

Hi Graham.

and it was the easiest car in the world to stall.

Agree.

No doubt about it in my mind, the bigger the car the better - and the easier - it is to drive. Which is perhaps why JH had problems with the Morris Minor

Disagree, the driver asked about the position of the gears which were pretty standard irrespective of the car size.
On the subject of standard I drove both the Standard 8 and Standard 10 amongst many others. I didn't however drive a MM.
One thing that does surprise me is how that early gearbox and clutch stood up to the rigours of 230+ miles of relentless hammer.
My recollection of the engineering of the time is not favourable - burning clutches (ah that unmistakeable smell) and jammed gears was commonplace.

Thanks

John

[Graham]

Hi John,

but if you never drove a Minor, then how can you agree with me that it was so easy to stall? It was - believe me. The clutch-action took no prisoners. I took my driving-test in my Moggie, and stalled it about half a dozen times. Still passed, though. The following day the starter motor fell off!

I drove that Moggie for quite a while, and never had to have the clutch re-lined. I have to say that those old side-valve engines were pretty reliable, as was the Series A o/head valve (per Gregsten's) which replaced them. Gearboxes were no problem at all, even back then. On several occasions I went with my Dad to see my brother in Durham, in the old man's Ford Popular 100E - a trip of about 270 miles each way, and that old banger never once let us down.
Cars in those days were crap compared with modern counterparts, but not so crap that you had to think twice before you went anywhere in one.

With regard to JH, my feelings are that he considered himself flash, and only pinched flash cars. His own motor, a Sunbeam Alpine, was fairly flash. I wouldn't mind betting that he stalled that Moggie a couple of times on Deadman's Hill before he figured it out.

Graham

[j.kettle1]

Hi Graham.

but if you never drove a Minor, then how can you agree with me that it was so easy to stall?

Because of all the cars I drove they were all much of a muchness, with a very sharp 'bite point' - they were all easy to stall.

With regard to JH, my feelings are that he considered himself flash, and only pinched flash cars. His own motor, a Sunbeam Alpine, was fairly flash. I wouldn't mind betting that he stalled that Moggie a couple of times on Deadman's Hill before he figured it out.

So you are saying that he had to be shown the basics of a car that was virtually identical to those that he had driven?
The gearlever and forward gears (maybe the reverse gear was in a different position) were the same, and the clutch, brakes and accelerator were in the same position.
So what in your opinion would he need to be shown by Valerie that was different from the other cars that he had driven in order to drive the MM away?


Thanks

John