Witness statement Dismissed-suspect No. 1?

[Wickerman]

I believe so, Garry.
And in the sentence into which Jon has read too much, he failed to observe that the verb "to sleep" was the only one conjugated in the present.

Seek, and you shall find.

"This might explain the present tense of his comment, "where I usually sleep", as betraying his intention to get out of this Victoria Home as soon as possible, and back to his usual dwellings."

http://forum.casebook.org/showpost.php?p=298167&postcount=588

I know it can be a chore to turn the page

[DVV]

"This might explain the present tense of his comment, "where I usually sleep", as betraying his intention to get out of this Victoria Home as soon as possible, and back to his usual dwellings."

Hi Jon,

And thanks. Once quoted, it doesn't need further comments.

Cheers

[sepiae]

'... talking to a female'

Hello everyone, I'm sepiae and quite new here

I'm trying to find something in regards to the deleted line in the original police report after Sarah Lewis had been interviewed [not her testimony at the inquest]. It's repeatedly quoted that Lewis saw a man on the -

'opposite side in Dorset Street (talking to a female [deleted])...'

I haven't yet found comments on the deleted 'talking to a female'.
Does anyone have any thoughts on this, any opinions?
How could it have gotten in the police report in the first place, if it was then deleted, as it's not easy to see how anything could be misunderstood as such words.

Thanks, and I didn't know where else to post this question

Have a great day everyone

[Wickerman]

Hi Sepiae.

This statement you refer to was taken down by Abberline on 9th Nov. while all the witnesses were detained within Millers Court.

For what it's worth, I have always assumed Abberline just momentarily mistook this loiterer for the man outside the Britannia, whom Sarah said was with a female ("talking to a female"?).

We have no indication this loiterer had been in conversation with another passing female, though if he had, the line would not have been struck out.

[sepiae]

Hi Jon,

thank you ! Yes, I meanwhile came to read something similar into it.

Have a good weekend

[RockySullivan]

I cannot believe Hutch is anything but the prime suspect. He knew kelly, strike 1...he followed kelly and "astrakhan man"....strike 2 (stalking)...he waited outside kelly's house for way too long of a time for anyone in their right mind (strike 3)....how much has hutch been looked into? From his account he really really really looks like the ripper

[Wickerman]

I cannot believe Hutch is anything but the prime suspect.

Much the same has been said about Barnett.

He knew kelly, strike 1...he followed kelly and "astrakhan man"....strike 2 (stalking)...he waited outside kelly's house for way too long of a time for anyone in their right mind (strike 3)....how much has hutch been looked into?

How much, you mean today?
As you must know he was cleared of suspicion at the time, but today we can't even find him.

From his account he really really really looks like the ripper

And what does the 'Britannia-man' look like?
Here we have a man who openly accosted women in the street, attempted to entice them down dark alleys, and was certainly seen about Dorset St. on the night in question.

What does the Ripper "really, really, really" look like?

[RockySullivan]

Much the same has been said about Barnett.



How much, you mean today?
As you must know he was cleared of suspicion at the time, but today we can't even find him.



And what does the 'Britannia-man' look like?
Here we have a man who openly accosted women in the street, attempted to entice them down dark alleys, and was certainly seen about Dorset St. on the night in question.

What does the Ripper "really, really, really" look like?

I meant he looks like the ripper from his actions...stalking....waiting...spying

[Wickerman]

I meant he looks like the ripper from his actions...stalking....waiting...spying

These activities witnessed in Hampstead, Chelsea, Hammersmith, the West End, etc. could well be described as suspicious. Here in the East End, where social standards were significantly lower, I wouldn't call it too unusual.
He may have had designs on mugging this Astrachan, but lost interest and wandered away, that doesn't make him Jack the Ripper, just a common criminal or opportunistic thief?

Surely, a man known to accost women in the street is a more likely candidate?

[caz]

Hi All,

It occurs to me that because Hutchinson was considered an important witness at the time of making his statement, the police would have secured the bed for him at the Victoria Home from that night to make sure he was in easy reach for as long as he was needed. He was apparently broke and out of work, so whether he 'usually' slept there or at some other lodging house, there could be no guarantees about his whereabouts when the police were done with him for the night unless they made it their business to secure him a temporary 'fixed abode' for the immediate future.

By the time the statement was formally written up, the witness had an 'official' and reasonably respectable place of residence where he could be contacted - the Victoria Home Commercial Street.

It would hardly have been good practice to allow potentially important witnesses to be 'of no fixed abode' - or to describe them as such. And that's what a penniless witness like Hutchinson would effectively have been when coming forward.

Love,

Caz
X

[SirJohnFalstaff]

So this also raise the possibility that Hutch lied and just wanted a roof for a couple of nights?

That would explain him waiting after the inquest.

[Wickerman]

I doubt there was a policy for free bed & board for every homeless witness.

[caz]

Maybe not, Jon, but Abberline reported that Hutchinson had 'promised to go with an officer tomorrow morning at 11.30. am. to the Shoreditch mortuary to identify the deceased'.

He was considered an important witness, so if he had seen Kelly's well dressed man again while walking round the district that night with the two officers, he could have ended up a vital prosecution witness in court.

How incompetent would the police have looked if they had let him drift off afterwards, with no money for lodgings, and had lost touch with him because he had had to sleep rough or even leave the district?

Of course, it's possible he still had a bob or two for his bed and board, and pretended otherwise when Kelly had tried to borrow sixpence. But whether or not he paid his own way at the Victoria Home that night, the police would have wanted him where they could find him again, and I would not be a bit surprised if he also 'promised' to reside at that particular establishment until further notice.

Love,

Caz
X

[Wickerman]

Maybe not, Jon, but Abberline reported that Hutchinson had 'promised to go with an officer tomorrow morning at 11.30. am. to the Shoreditch mortuary to identify the deceased'.

He was considered an important witness, so if he had seen Kelly's well dressed man again while walking round the district that night with the two officers, he could have ended up a vital prosecution witness in court.

How incompetent would the police have looked if they had let him drift off afterwards, with no money for lodgings, and had lost touch with him because he had had to sleep rough or even leave the district?

Of course, it's possible he still had a bob or two for his bed and board, and pretended otherwise when Kelly had tried to borrow sixpence. But whether or not he paid his own way at the Victoria Home that night, the police would have wanted him where they could find him again, and I would not be a bit surprised if he also 'promised' to reside at that particular establishment until further notice.

Love,

Caz
X

No need to explain Caz, your point is a perfectly valid one.

We only have to look at Lawende, a valuable witness who was sequestered away from press & public for a time.
As valid as your point is, Hutchinson is not going to know this beforehand, which is what Sir John alluded to in his reply to you. It was this reply that I was responding to.

For Sir John's suggestion to be valid ie; intentionally lying to get a bed for the night, Hutchinson would have to know before he walked into Commercial St. station, that offering the police a story they can't refuse will get him free bed and board.
Therefore, implied in this suggestion is that Hutchinson believed it was police policy, which is hardly tenable.

Sorry for the confusion, nice to see you posting again.

[caz]

Cheers Jon.

I can't quite believe we were allowed to get away with the suggestion that it may have been the police who organised Hutchinson's Victoria Home 'abode' to fix his sleeping arrangements for as long as they needed him close to hand.

Hope I'm not speaking too soon.

Love,

Caz
X