Casebook: Jack the Ripper - Main
   

Introduction
Victims
Suspects
Witnesses
Ripper Letters
Police Officials
Official Documents
Press Reports
Victorian London
Message Boards
Ripper Media
Authors
Dissertations
Timelines
Games & Diversions
Photo Archive
Ripper Wiki
Casebook Examiner
Ripper Podcast
About the Casebook

Most Recent Posts:
Catherine Eddowes: A problem with the "Eddowes Shawl" DNA match - by mickreed 5 minutes ago.
Catherine Eddowes: Where Did The Shawl Come From? - by mickreed 8 minutes ago.
Catherine Eddowes: A problem with the "Eddowes Shawl" DNA match - by Archaic 24 minutes ago.
Catherine Eddowes: A problem with the "Eddowes Shawl" DNA match - by GUT 1 hours ago.
Catherine Eddowes: A problem with the "Eddowes Shawl" DNA match - by mickreed 1 hour and 6 minutes ago.
Kosminski, Aaron: DNA error - by mickreed 2 hours ago.

Most Popular Threads:
Catherine Eddowes: A problem with the "Eddowes Shawl" DNA match - (96 posts)
General Suspect Discussion: Suspect battle: Cross/Lechmere vs. Hutchinson - (59 posts)
Catherine Eddowes: Where Did The Shawl Come From? - (18 posts)
Martha Tabram: Probibility of Martha Tabram Being a JtR Victim - (15 posts)
Elizabeth Stride: Dutfield's Yard Video - (9 posts)
Kosminski, Aaron: DNA error - (9 posts)

Wiki Updates:
Joseph Lawende
Edit: Chris
Mar 9, 2014, 10:12 am
Online newspaper archives
Edit: Chris
Mar 6, 2014, 11:56 pm
Miscellaneous research resources
Edit: Chris
Feb 13, 2014, 9:28 am
Charles Cross
Edit: John Bennett
Sep 4, 2013, 8:20 pm
Donald Swanson
Edit: Chris
Dec 9, 2012, 3:40 pm

Most Recent Blogs:
Mike Covell: Mike’s Book Releases
March 17, 2014, 3:18 am.
Mike Covell: A Study in Red – The Secret Journal of Jack the Ripper
March 3, 2014, 3:42 am.
Mike Covell: Almost there….
January 24, 2014, 4:05 am.
Mike Covell: Jack the Ripper - Year in Review 2013
December 28, 2013, 7:31 am.
Mike Covell: Jack the Ripper At Last? - Review
December 9, 2013, 2:08 am.
Mike Covell: From Whitechapel to Whitefriargate
November 27, 2013, 4:15 am.

Go Back   Casebook Forums > Ripper Discussions > Victims > Mary Jane Kelly

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #141  
Old 04-16-2012, 11:50 AM
Debra A Debra A is offline
Superintendent
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Yorkshire England
Posts: 2,010
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cogidubnus View Post
Hi Debs

I think daylight is gradually dawning...

Now, to get to the crunch, the interesting question (and I just bet you've got an answer already!) how many Johnstons/Johnstones, and how many likely to be, say, London-based?

(I'd guess quite a few as, alas, it's not an uncommon name)

All the best

Dave
Hi Dave, yes it is a very common name and they are all over the place. There are Irish Johns(t)ons living in Wales and working in the iron industry and with daughters named Mary Jane even!
But researching the name Johnston in connection with MJK would be pointless unless perhaps there was a family that obviously fitted all the same criteria as the MJK's Kellys. Other than that, if MJK lied about her name she may have lied about everything, or even just some small part. Either way it becomes impossible to 'weigh up' any Johnston family finds?

My main interest is not in researching Johnstons but that Jonto is linked to that surname as a nickname.
I am leaning towards the opinion offered by others, that Johnto probably was a lover rather than a brother. Perhaps he may even be the man MJK took to sleep at Mrs Carthy's one night if this 'brother' really did visit her in Whitechapel?
__________________
,,`,, Debs ,,`,,
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
  #142  
Old 04-16-2012, 01:31 PM
Bridewell Bridewell is offline
Superintendent
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Bottesford, Leicestershire
Posts: 2,885
Default Gibberish?!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Debra A View Post
But it's really not about anyone stealing anyone else's thunder, and if that's the way my post came across rather than genuinely wanting you to post anything further that you find seeing as you are obviously interested in the same line of research as me, then either there's a strange new breed of attitude afoot or I really do speak jibberish in my posts.
Debra, you never speak gibberish. I was just a little annoyed at myself for having missed what you'd posted.

Regards, Bridewell.
__________________
Regards, Bridewell.
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
  #143  
Old 04-16-2012, 03:35 PM
Garry Wroe Garry Wroe is offline
Inspector
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 1,336
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Debra A View Post
My main interest is not in researching Johnstons but that Jonto is linked to that surname as a nickname.
Me too.

Quote:
I am leaning towards the opinion offered by others, that Johnto probably was a lover rather than a brother. Perhaps he may even be the man MJK took to sleep at Mrs Carthy's one night if this 'brother' really did visit her in Whitechapel?
It would certainly be interesting if someone could identify a Johnston (or some variant thereof) who was serving in the Scots Guards during the relevant timeframe, especially a Johnston who was married at the time and who might therefore have been reluctant to admit to his relationship with Mary Jane.
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
  #144  
Old 04-16-2012, 03:55 PM
lynn cates lynn cates is offline
Commisioner
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 12,345
Default hypothesis

Hello Debs.

"Perhaps he may even be the man MJK took to sleep at Mrs Carthy's one night if this 'brother' really did visit her in Whitechapel?"

Splendid hypothesis. Has a general time frame for that event been established? The wording makes it look fairly close to her TOD.

Cheers.
LC
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
  #145  
Old 04-16-2012, 05:44 PM
Debra A Debra A is offline
Superintendent
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Yorkshire England
Posts: 2,010
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Garry Wroe View Post
It would certainly be interesting if someone could identify a Johnston (or some variant thereof) who was serving in the Scots Guards during the relevant timeframe, especially a Johnston who was married at the time and who might therefore have been reluctant to admit to his relationship with Mary Jane.
Fourteen men with the surname Johnston or variations come up in an initial search of men attested to the Scots Guards (all Battalions) between 1868-1888, including a Henry and a Harry.
I will have to look through the whole file on each of them to be able to narrow down which of them were actually serving in the 2nd Battalion in 1888.
__________________
,,`,, Debs ,,`,,
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
  #146  
Old 04-16-2012, 05:51 PM
Debra A Debra A is offline
Superintendent
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Yorkshire England
Posts: 2,010
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by lynn cates View Post
Hello Debs.

Splendid hypothesis. Has a general time frame for that event been established? The wording makes it look fairly close to her TOD.

Cheers.
LC
Hi Lynn,
I'd have to check back as I'm not entirely sure.
If it was close to Mary's time of death then it couldn't be a serving 2nd B Scots Guard as the 2nd Battalion left London for Dublin on the 6th September 1888 to take over from the 2nd Battalion Coldstream Guards stationed there.
__________________
,,`,, Debs ,,`,,
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
  #147  
Old 04-16-2012, 09:34 PM
Cogidubnus Cogidubnus is offline
Assistant Commissioner
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: West Sussex UK
Posts: 3,031
Default

Quote:
I am leaning towards the opinion offered by others, that Johnto probably was a lover rather than a brother. Perhaps he may even be the man MJK took to sleep at Mrs Carthy's one night if this 'brother' really did visit her in Whitechapel?
Hi Debs

Belatedly, yes that was my feeling too, hence my query...in particular the London connection (though he may've just spent some duty time or leave there). It's still all a bit "thin" at this time distance though isn't it? (Of course just about everything is though really!). Must drive you mad sometimes!

All the best

Dave
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
  #148  
Old 04-16-2012, 09:39 PM
lynn cates lynn cates is offline
Commisioner
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 12,345
Default Carthy sighting

Hello Debs. Thanks. I think that is one of the best MJK's sighting out there. That "gentleman" with her is extremely interesting.

Cheers.
LC
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
  #149  
Old 04-17-2012, 12:52 AM
Wickerman Wickerman is offline
Commisioner
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 5,281
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Debra A View Post
Also, if you look back at my earlier posts you will see I don't go with the 'Ianto' idea either, I also mentioned the pronunciation would be totally different for Abberline to have written it down as Johnto from Barnett's dictation, so I have no idea where you got the idea I was championing the 'Ianto' version over 'John too'.
Yes I now see where you might think that. Its not what I was meaning. In responding to you that "Ianto" is being championed, I was not meaning by you specifically. I could have worded it better.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Debra A View Post
If it was close to Mary's time of death then it couldn't be a serving 2nd B Scots Guard as the 2nd Battalion left London for Dublin on the 6th September 1888 to take over from the 2nd Battalion Coldstream Guards stationed there.
Incidently, I don't see any allusion to a timeline in Barnett's words, and he does tell us himself that the regiment was in Ireland.

Regards, Jon S.
__________________
Regards, Jon S.
If nonsense were solid, the nonsense that is written against Hutchinson would sink a Dreadnought
Inspired by, Robert Anderson.
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
  #150  
Old 04-17-2012, 01:58 AM
Cogidubnus Cogidubnus is offline
Assistant Commissioner
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: West Sussex UK
Posts: 3,031
Default

Quote:
Incidently, I don't see any allusion to a timeline in Barnett's words, and he does tell us himself that the regiment was in Ireland.
Which in itself is interesting for obvious reasons. ie Unless he's a Scots Guards Enthusiast (extremely dubious!) how does he know...only likely answer...Mary told him, which comes close to proving at least part of his testimony. (I'm sure I heard or read that somewhere before, incidentally, and wouldn't want you to think I'm claiming it's an original thought!)

Dave
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 07:12 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.