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Go Back   Casebook Forums > Ripper Discussions > Victims > Mary Jane Kelly

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  #181  
Old 04-11-2012, 06:19 PM
Carol Carol is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Debra A View Post
Hi Carol,
Thanks very much for this snippet, very interesting and it illustrates what I mentioned earlier; that even if a soldier paid himself out it shows in the records.
Did you ever find out why your grandfather bought himself out after 18 months the first time but later re-enlisted and went on to serve 21 years?
Hi Debs,

No idea, I'm afraid. No-one in our family knew he had bought himself out of the Army until my brother did some research about eight years ago. My father (the oldest child) died in 1996 but he had never mentioned it, and his sister and youngest brother, who were still alive when Fred did the research, didn't know about it either.

Carol
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  #182  
Old 04-11-2012, 09:18 PM
Archaic Archaic is offline
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Default "Fair Emma"

The sobriquet "Fair Emma" dates to at least the 1600's, where it appears in a dramatic work, though it was certainly popularized by the fame of "Fair Emma" Hamilton, the beautiful lover of Admiral Nelson.

I've seen the phrase "Fair Emma" pop up in all kinds of 19th C. novels. In the instances I've come across, the female subject is actually named 'Emma', and is affectionately called "Fair Emma" by admirers and/or the narrator.

So I think it's entirely possible that one of Mary's "working aliases" was actually 'Emma', but of course it's also possible that she was given this sobriquet as a local nickname simply because she was attractive.

Best regards,
Archaic
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  #183  
Old 04-12-2012, 12:03 AM
lynn cates lynn cates is offline
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Default plausible

Hello Bunny.

"of course it's also possible that she was given this sobriquet as a local nickname simply because she was attractive."

Sounds quite plausible. Rather like "Long" Liz--just because she is "Liz," not really tall.

Cheers.
LC
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  #184  
Old 04-12-2012, 01:06 AM
Archaic Archaic is offline
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Default Prostitution and Assumed Names

Hi Lynn, good example.

I came across a passage relating to the prevalence of assumed names among prostitutes in a book called 'Pornography, Sex Work, and Hate Speech' by Karen Maschke:

"A woman entering prostitution typically acquires a new name, changes her appearance, and creates a fictitious past. She does this not so much to protect herself from the police (although a string of aliases helps), but to rearrange her persona so as to meet the market demand, and in an attempt to save something of herself for herself."

I think the author makes a powerful point. Mary Kelly probably used aliases because in addition to protecting her from acquiring an extensive arrest record under a single name, they also served the crucial function of helping her to preserve a bit of her "true self" for herself alone.

This need is understandable when one reflects on the fact that prostitutes live their lives being treated like public property.

This need would be especially strong if Mary actually came from a better family background than the average Whitechapel prostitute, as her friends and neighbors stated at the inquest, because it would mean that she had "fallen" even further than usual.

The more I think about it, the less likely it seems to me that Mary Jane Kelly was her real name.

Best regards,
Archaic
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  #185  
Old 04-12-2012, 01:14 AM
Bridewell Bridewell is offline
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What a superb post that is, Archaic. Thank-you. I agree with you entirely.

Regards, Bridewell.
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Regards, Bridewell.
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  #186  
Old 04-12-2012, 01:58 AM
Debra A Debra A is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carol View Post
Hi Debs,

No idea, I'm afraid. No-one in our family knew he had bought himself out of the Army until my brother did some research about eight years ago. My father (the oldest child) died in 1996 but he had never mentioned it, and his sister and youngest brother, who were still alive when Fred did the research, didn't know about it either.

Carol
Hi Carol,
No worries, I was just being nosey really. I bet his father was pleased to get back some of the money he used to buy him out the first time anyway.
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  #187  
Old 04-12-2012, 04:47 PM
Semper_Eadem Semper_Eadem is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Archaic View Post

The more I think about it, the less likely it seems to me that Mary Jane Kelly was her real name.

Best regards,
Archaic
I agree Bunny. I've thought that myself and stated it numerous times here on the board and on the JTR Forums so you won't get any argument out of me.

I wonder if anyone has gone over the Anglo-Irish census in Ireland to see if any women of a good family born there ended up in England or Wales, because Mary might of have indeed been Irish and had an accent. perhaps she didn't marry Davies but ran off with him and lived in sin for a while until he threw her over leaving her in a lurch as the saying goes. I've been pondering this but I don't have access to the censuses or the time.

The hard part is if this woman murdered by JTR wasn't Mary Kelly then who was she and what was the truth in what she told Barnett and what was not true. If she was fibbing then she must of have been consistent in what she told Barnett, because I think he would of caught her switching stuff around.
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  #188  
Old 04-12-2012, 05:34 PM
lynn cates lynn cates is offline
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Default real name

Hello Bunny. Thanks.

"Mary Kelly probably used aliases because in addition to protecting her from acquiring an extensive arrest record under a single name, they also served the crucial function of helping her to preserve a bit of her "true self" for herself alone."

But one wonders whether she ever felt comfortable enough with Barnett to reveal her true name?

Cheers.
LC
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  #189  
Old 09-07-2013, 04:14 PM
kevin eeley kevin eeley is offline
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sorry if this has already been linked, but its late and I wanted to post in case I forgot, I found it a while back, but lost the link.
the picture is also here, in an uncropped form,

http://www.ancientfaces.com/photo/jo...lection=person

so tempting to type yours truly, but I wont
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  #190  
Old 09-08-2013, 01:57 AM
richardnunweek richardnunweek is offline
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Hi,
Well I guess that's a fitting end to the mystery of the well discussed Photo,
Oh dear...
Regards Richard.
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