Casebook: Jack the Ripper - Main
   

Introduction
Victims
Suspects
Witnesses
Ripper Letters
Police Officials
Official Documents
Press Reports
Victorian London
Message Boards
Ripper Media
Authors
Dissertations
Timelines
Games & Diversions
Photo Archive
Ripper Wiki
Casebook Examiner
Ripper Podcast
About the Casebook

Most Recent Posts:
General Suspect Discussion: Suspect battle: Cross/Lechmere vs. Hutchinson - by Fisherman 4 minutes ago.
General Suspect Discussion: Suspect battle: Cross/Lechmere vs. Hutchinson - by Harry D 4 minutes ago.
General Suspect Discussion: Suspect battle: Cross/Lechmere vs. Hutchinson - by Jon Guy 7 minutes ago.
Martha Tabram: Probibility of Martha Tabram Being a JtR Victim - by John G 27 minutes ago.
General Suspect Discussion: Suspect battle: Cross/Lechmere vs. Hutchinson - by Westbourne Wink 31 minutes ago.
General Suspect Discussion: Suspect battle: Cross/Lechmere vs. Hutchinson - by Sally 46 minutes ago.

Most Popular Threads:
Catherine Eddowes: A problem with the "Eddowes Shawl" DNA match - (89 posts)
General Suspect Discussion: Suspect battle: Cross/Lechmere vs. Hutchinson - (53 posts)
Elizabeth Stride: Dutfield's Yard Video - (14 posts)
Motive, Method and Madness: Why those particular victims? - (8 posts)
Barnett, Joseph: First time spotted 1878 - (6 posts)
Catherine Eddowes: Where Did The Shawl Come From? - (6 posts)

Wiki Updates:
Joseph Lawende
Edit: Chris
Mar 9, 2014, 10:12 am
Online newspaper archives
Edit: Chris
Mar 6, 2014, 11:56 pm
Miscellaneous research resources
Edit: Chris
Feb 13, 2014, 9:28 am
Charles Cross
Edit: John Bennett
Sep 4, 2013, 8:20 pm
Donald Swanson
Edit: Chris
Dec 9, 2012, 3:40 pm

Most Recent Blogs:
Mike Covell: Mike’s Book Releases
March 17, 2014, 3:18 am.
Mike Covell: A Study in Red – The Secret Journal of Jack the Ripper
March 3, 2014, 3:42 am.
Mike Covell: Almost there….
January 24, 2014, 4:05 am.
Mike Covell: Jack the Ripper - Year in Review 2013
December 28, 2013, 7:31 am.
Mike Covell: Jack the Ripper At Last? - Review
December 9, 2013, 2:08 am.
Mike Covell: From Whitechapel to Whitefriargate
November 27, 2013, 4:15 am.

Go Back   Casebook Forums > Ripper Discussions > Victims > Catherine Eddowes

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #311  
Old 03-30-2012, 09:46 AM
Semper_Eadem Semper_Eadem is offline
Constable
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Ye Small Town MO USA
Posts: 80
Default In my humble opinion....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil Carter View Post
Hello all,

It was recently suggested to me that there seems to be a theory, given that many believe Elizabeth Stride to be a separate 'event' and the thought, in some people's minds, that "Mary Kelly"'s death way also be unconnected with the other murders in the C5, that the "key" to the door that would unlock some, if not the main part of the mystery of the Whitechapel murders lies in the demise of Catherine Eddowes. I have to say that I tend to agree with this train of thought. Are there any others who may agree, partially or entirely with this thought? (For obvious reasons, those who believe in the C5 being a one man murder spree would no doubt disagree entirely with this view.) What are your views?


Kindly

Phil
Hello Phil et Everyone,

I was thinking over Eddowes and Stride tonight while going to work. I'm pretty much a traditionalist in that I think JTR got spooked before he could get to work on Stride and took any frustration he had over not finishing with stride on mutilating Eddowes. But that leaves Kelly. Maybe the killer got worse as he went along. Yep that same old tired song. I think JTR was very aware of his surroundings as he mutilated these women and didn't want to get caught. Perhaps getting away with the killing was as important to JTR as the murders themselves and had a lot to do with his MO..

I think he started on someone who wasn't part of the C5, probably the first victim of JTR was a house cat up the road that JTR killed when he was 8. I think he made some sort of progression. I do know I have do a recap on Ada Wilson. She is interesting and might of been JTR first London/Whitechapel victim, although I think he might of pulled the same thing in another town. Especially, if he progressed in his violence, perhaps he struck a woman or knocked a woman down and kicked her and did some time in the local jail or paid a fine.

Bah I said pretty much the same thing on the JTR Forums when I posted there. Yes, I am definitely singing the same old song. Still its a lively tune and lets you all know my pretty basic opinion. JTR got spooked with Stride and took it out on Eddowes and decied he liked thrill of going totally bonkers with the mutalations and then he found Kelly with her room.
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
  #312  
Old 03-31-2012, 02:58 PM
curious curious is offline
Inspector
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Tennessee
Posts: 1,310
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Semper_Eadem View Post
JTR got spooked with Stride and took it out on Eddowes and decied he liked thrill of going totally bonkers with the mutalations and then he found Kelly with her room.
And then what?
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
  #313  
Old 04-03-2012, 10:37 PM
KatBradshaw KatBradshaw is offline
Sergeant
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: York
Posts: 566
Default

That is the 64,000 dollar question!
__________________
In order to know virtue, we must first aquaint ourselves with vice!
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
  #314  
Old 04-05-2012, 06:58 AM
Semper_Eadem Semper_Eadem is offline
Constable
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Ye Small Town MO USA
Posts: 80
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by curious View Post
And then what?
I think after Kelly the killer's mind snapped and he went raving mad so the cops took him away in the paddy wagon. I'll admit I might be wrong but this fits.
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
  #315  
Old 04-05-2012, 06:07 PM
Errata Errata is offline
Superintendent
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Tennessee, U.S.
Posts: 2,062
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Semper_Eadem View Post
I think after Kelly the killer's mind snapped and he went raving mad so the cops took him away in the paddy wagon. I'll admit I might be wrong but this fits.
The brain doesn't work that way unless the problem is physiological. First of all, people never really "snap". The delusions, hallucinations, sociopathy, whatever was there for a while. And there are behavioral changes during that time. Irritability, hyper vigilance, changes in habit, etc. It's when something happens of significance to the killer that triggers killing. But even if they devolve into a totally uncontrolled killer, they aren't going more mad. Even if a person is severely deluded and having hallucinations, he will never do something to another person on purpose that he cannot handle. Whoever killed Kelly was morally and psychologically fine with what he was doing. At best he would be horrified to find out that he did that to someone who was not who he thought it was, for example if he was deluded into believing that she was his wife or something. But not by what he did. And even if he was horrified to find out that he did that to a stranger instead of his intended target, it would be quickly rationalized. These people kill and mutilate because they want to. They rationalize a reason, and the reason may even be the stressor that prompted them to kill in the first place. But clearly there are ways to deal with a cheating wife or an abusive mother that don't involve harming people. They want to do what they are doing. It gives them pleasure, it gives them the illusion of power and control. That's all they care about. The rest is window dressing. Kelly's killer didn't "snap". What he did didn't drive him mad. If he got worse, it was completely unrelated to his crimes.
__________________
The early bird might get the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese.
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
  #316  
Old 04-05-2012, 08:17 PM
Semper_Eadem Semper_Eadem is offline
Constable
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Ye Small Town MO USA
Posts: 80
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Errata View Post
The brain doesn't work that way unless the problem is physiological. First of all, people never really "snap". The delusions, hallucinations, sociopathy, whatever was there for a while. And there are behavioral changes during that time. Irritability, hyper vigilance, changes in habit, etc. It's when something happens of significance to the killer that triggers killing. But even if they devolve into a totally uncontrolled killer, they aren't going more mad. Even if a person is severely deluded and having hallucinations, he will never do something to another person on purpose that he cannot handle. Whoever killed Kelly was morally and psychologically fine with what he was doing. At best he would be horrified to find out that he did that to someone who was not who he thought it was, for example if he was deluded into believing that she was his wife or something. But not by what he did. And even if he was horrified to find out that he did that to a stranger instead of his intended target, it would be quickly rationalized. These people kill and mutilate because they want to. They rationalize a reason, and the reason may even be the stressor that prompted them to kill in the first place. But clearly there are ways to deal with a cheating wife or an abusive mother that don't involve harming people. They want to do what they are doing. It gives them pleasure, it gives them the illusion of power and control. That's all they care about. The rest is window dressing. Kelly's killer didn't "snap". What he did didn't drive him mad. If he got worse, it was completely unrelated to his crimes.
Hi Errata,

I was just conjecturing in the cause of death thread for David Cohen in suspects, if the killer had problems keeping up appearances due to any mental illness/psychosis he might of had. Perhaps the term "his mind snapped" is simplifying it too much. I like to be cut and dry and simplify things a bit too much perhaps. Perhaps his mind indeed was physiological.

I don't know if the killer displayed any sociopath tendencies with the ripper murders but if he did start as a child then chances are that he was probably a sociopath, although that is a strong word, the killer was real good at fobbing people off if they got to noisy. I was thinking more along the lines of Psychopath. Gordon Stewart Northcott was a sociopath but I don't know how well Jack The Ripper fits that mold but then again I don't know that much about Jack. I got into studying the Ripper case because of my interest in Victorian London and Jack's Victims plus I saw the Michael Cain movie back in 1988. I always thought JTR was just a lucky pyschopath.

Although, I was toying with the idea that Walter Sickert was JTR for about 5 minuets after reading Patricia Cornwalls books but that theory was mostly because of the watermarks on the paper of some of the ripper letters was supposedly simular to Sickerts. I never really thought about Sickerts Paintings although if he was a sociopath then it would be possible.....nope not going to get into this debate. However, I still do wonder if Sickert might of wrote some of the Ripper letters for kicks.

I think the killer got worse in his killing. A typical psychopath latter of progression. I think he started with the neighbors cat as a child/preteen and worked his way up the line. I think we have a Jeffrey Dahmer or Ted Bundy although I do not know if Bundy was mentally ill but I think Dahmer was after I saw a movie about him "Dahmer" and heard Martin Fido bring him up on Rippercast.

I think the Killer might of gotten worse because victims were getting harder to find plus the stress of hiding his mental illness or the fact that he was a psychopath. Although that doesn't explain Frances Coles unless her killer was a very lucky copycat.
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 05:08 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.