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Go Back   Casebook Forums > Ripper Discussions > Suspects > Hutchinson, George

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  #101  
Old 02-24-2012, 03:30 PM
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caz caz is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fisherman View Post
One thing I have argued before, and that I think is relevant here, is that when we list examples of killers that have gone to the police, either to confuse or to taunt them, we list killers that all have gone on stage after the Ripper.

I think that the element of risktaking - and it is a huge risk to approach the police and try to con them - is something that has presented more and more of an appeal to a special category of killers as the years have passed. Killers like the Zodiac, for example, would have appealed to this special category very much. It has thus become a sport of some sort to be the cleverest and most daring killer, just as it has become a sport to become the killer with the largest number of victims. A connection of killer-police-press-audience (and that would be us) has been established, a daredevils theatre of killers if you like.

Od course, if this lies within the human nature, it will have been there from the outset. But I would still like to see examples of this behaviour that PRECEDE the Ripper, instead of examples AFTER him. For even if the mechanism lies within us, it seems obvious to me that it has not exploded until well after 1888.

If anybody can exemplify this behaviour from pre-Ripper times, it would be interesting to hear about it!

All the best,
Fisherman
Hi Fisherman,

I'm not sure this exercise is strictly necessary if the aim is to test the argument that Hutch came forward because he was one of these daredevils who need centre stage not only by killing, but by injecting themselves into the investigation and playing games with the police, the media and the public.

Not very good at it, was he? Where was he after November 1888? Busy doing nothing and saying nothing, that's what - until he eventually becomes pipe and slippers man boring the family with how he came to be a witness in the Jack the Ripper case.

Love,

Caz
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  #102  
Old 02-24-2012, 03:38 PM
richardnunweek richardnunweek is offline
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Hi.
lets again try to put all of this into prospective.
We have a name for George Hutchinson, the only one given to the media since 1888, that being, Topping.
So unless we can prove conclusively that he was not the witness, I can only picture him as being the person as shown in the well known picture of Reg's father.
The statement of George Hutchinson is there for all to see, it would have been viewed exactly as it is today, and would have aroused suspicion by the police, and he would have initially been''interogated'' as Abberline states , before he would have been satisfied that he was not responsible for murder.
Was he being totally honest?
His motive for waiting forty five minutes is questionable but he would hardly say'' I was waiting for that dude to leave, so I can kip down in her room'', so just waiting out of curiosity would suffice much better.
Was Hutchinson just doing his public duty, believing he may have seen the killer.?
I would say Yes.
Did he see the killer?
I would say most likely not.
Regards Richard.
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  #103  
Old 02-24-2012, 07:03 PM
DVV DVV is offline
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Originally Posted by caz View Post
Circular reasoning David. Tut tut.
Hello Caroline, you sure the objection wasn't semi-circular already ?
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  #104  
Old 02-24-2012, 07:14 PM
DVV DVV is offline
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Originally Posted by richardnunweek View Post
We have a name for George Hutchinson, the only one given to the media since 1888, that being, Topping.
Regards Richard.
Reg owes you a mass in A Flat Major, my friend.
Have I to recall that nobody has ever trusted Reg except you and Fairclough ? - but the latter trusted him just for a while and commercial reasons.
Feldman rejected Reg.
Edwards rejected Reg.
Iremonger said the signatures didn't match.
Reg never tried to prove his good faith, although his testimony was used to back up the craziest theory ever, featuring PAV (as Count Orlock).
He could go and talk to Rumbelow, SPE, Sugden, Begg, Nunweek, The Good Mike, whoever. Twas easy to do, and he could hope some benefit, he who is known for accepting easy money (and that I got from you, Richard).
He did NOT.
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  #105  
Old 02-24-2012, 07:36 PM
DVV DVV is offline
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Originally Posted by caz View Post
You don't think the police investigating at the time might have noticed any of this obviously suspicious behaviour, which you see so clearly from 123 years in the future?

Man waits for prossie's current customer to finish and leave; 45 minutes later man is still bloody waiting; man gives up, not imagining for a moment that prossie will be found ripped up in her own bed in the morning. What the hell does he do when he finds out? God knows who might have seen him hanging around all that time. So he waits (he's good at that) and thinks, and waits some more (he's good at that too) and thinks some more - and eventually he decides to come forward with his account of the customer who was still in that bloody room at 3am.

Now what is so suspicious and so unreasonable about any of that? Thousands of innocent men have come forward to clear themselves in this way when a serious crime has been committed nearby. The police were dealing daily with men in the immediate area who all needed to be eliminated. Hutch was just one of them, but he had claimed to be very near the crime scene between 2.15 and 3am. That would not have escaped Abberline unless he had the brain of a backward flea.
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Hello again, well, that's how candidacies are all working, don't you think ? I could jump into any Kosminski thread and say : "he was just a harmless lunatic named by an old wishful thinker". And nobody could prove me wrong.
However, given Anderson's opinion, Swanson's marginalia, etc, I can easily understand why some are making Kosminski their fav suspect.
And the same with Hutch.
He was back from Romford and spent that cold night walking the streets.
Why not ?
He met Mary, whom he claimed to have known for 3 years.
Err....why not...even though none of them were living in Whitechapel 3 years before.
He saw a suspicious man with her. And guess what ? A Jew ! But not the sort of poor Jew you can see in old East End pics. No. Rather Mr King, who inspired Fu Manchu to Sax Rohmer.
Why not....? But errr....
And Hutch almost saw Astrakhan underpants.
Ok, he had good eyes. Quite amazing when compared to other witnesses testimonies, but why not...
Then, on the morrow, Hutch learnt that his friend Mary had been butchered. But he did not come forward.
Again, why not. But why ?
On Sunday morning...bingo ! Astrakhan again ! But still Hutch did not move.
Why ? Why not ? I don't know what to say.
Then the inquest, his coming forward, etc etc.
And right at the time he was supposed to help the police, looking for the man in the district....you know what ? He explained everything he was doing to the press, as if willing to warn the killer.

With all that, even if you don't favour Hutch as a suspect, you should at least understand why some consider him a possible one.
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  #106  
Old 02-25-2012, 12:06 AM
lynn cates lynn cates is offline
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Hello David. Hutchinson seems to be as viable as Barnett.

Frankly, any time a lady is killed, police first suspect significant males in her life. And for good reason.

Cheers.
LC
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  #107  
Old 02-25-2012, 12:28 AM
Abby Normal Abby Normal is offline
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Originally Posted by DVV View Post
Hello again, well, that's how candidacies are all working, don't you think ? I could jump into any Kosminski thread and say : "he was just a harmless lunatic named by an old wishful thinker". And nobody could prove me wrong.
However, given Anderson's opinion, Swanson's marginalia, etc, I can easily understand why some are making Kosminski their fav suspect.
And the same with Hutch.
He was back from Romford and spent that cold night walking the streets.
Why not ?
He met Mary, whom he claimed to have known for 3 years.
Err....why not...even though none of them were living in Whitechapel 3 years before.
He saw a suspicious man with her. And guess what ? A Jew ! But not the sort of poor Jew you can see in old East End pics. No. Rather Mr King, who inspired Fu Manchu to Sax Rohmer.
Why not....? But errr....
And Hutch almost saw Astrakhan underpants.
Ok, he had good eyes. Quite amazing when compared to other witnesses testimonies, but why not...
Then, on the morrow, Hutch learnt that his friend Mary had been butchered. But he did not come forward.
Again, why not. But why ?
On Sunday morning...bingo ! Astrakhan again ! But still Hutch did not move.
Why ? Why not ? I don't know what to say.
Then the inquest, his coming forward, etc etc.
And right at the time he was supposed to help the police, looking for the man in the district....you know what ? He explained everything he was doing to the press, as if willing to warn the killer.

With all that, even if you don't favour Hutch as a suspect, you should at least understand why some consider him a possible one.
well said
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  #108  
Old 02-25-2012, 05:13 AM
Wickerman Wickerman is offline
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Hi Dave.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DVV View Post
And the same with Hutch.
He was back from Romford and spent that cold night walking the streets.
Why not ?
That claim comes from the same newspaper that mentioned "Sunday morning" and "the lodger who convinced me", etc. Do you really believe Hutchinson walked about all night?
He only told the police "I went away", any conclusions drawn about what he did next are pure conjecture.


Quote:
He met Mary, whom he claimed to have known for 3 years.
Err....why not...even though none of them were living in Whitechapel 3 years before.
The address where Kelly is supposed to have stayed is just a short walk south of Berner St., she then moved to some place up on Commercial Rd, so she was not out of reach of Whitechapel or any locals.

Quote:
He saw a suspicious man with her. And guess what ? A Jew ! But not the sort of poor Jew you can see in old East End pics.
It was common to finger Jews, the local Eastenders blamed them for all manner of ill's, anti-semitism was rife. What would be suspicious was if we knew he lied about the man's appearance, or if we knew the man did not exist.
We know neither, yet we are told that he lied in order to build a case against him. Does the name "Salem" come to mind?...


Quote:
And Hutch almost saw Astrakhan underpants.
Ok, he had good eyes.
When a man is described as "of military appearance", it suggests he has standards. If he had spent some time in such an environment, this could quite easily account for his "eye for detail".
Yet, once again, some prefer to put a negative spin on a positive.

Quote:
Then, on the morrow, Hutch learnt that his friend Mary had been butchered. But he did not come forward.
Right, keep your distance until you know more. This is not suspicious activity, nothing more than self preservation. Besides, rumour had it she was killed a good seven hours (9:00am) after he saw her. What use would his statement be?

Quote:
On Sunday morning...bingo ! Astrakhan again ! But still Hutch did not move.
1 - Because he was not sure. Was he dressed differently, is this where the Astrachan coat was first seen?
2 - If Hutchinson was working at the market then certainly he was not free to leave his job.
3 - There was a policeman on point duty at markets, but again, if Kelly died so late on Friday morning, what use was his sighting?

Quote:
And right at the time he was supposed to help the police, looking for the man in the district....you know what ? He explained everything he was doing to the press, as if willing to warn the killer.
This was on the 14th, he had already spent two nights (12-13) & two days (13-14) helping the police. Warnings tend to be most effective "before" an event, not "after"

Quote:
With all that, even if you don't favour Hutch as a suspect, you should at least understand why some consider him a possible one.
"Possible" generally means "unsure", most of the persons pointing a finger at Hutchinson are "sure" to the point of "insisting on it".

Admitting to a degree of doubt might be more realistic.

Regards, Jon S.
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  #109  
Old 02-25-2012, 07:42 AM
The Good Michael The Good Michael is offline
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I'm working on a book in which Hutchinson was really Kelly's brother Johnto who had gone AWOL from the army and was acting as a pimp for his sister. It wasn't just her either. It began with Tabram. He used the Hutchinson alias because he was a deserter. The merit of this story is that it takes less filling in the blanks than the Hutchinson-as-ripper theory.

Mike
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  #110  
Old 02-26-2012, 01:00 PM
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Be on your guard with theories that take little filling in the blanks, Mike. That's the hallmark of crappy books.
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