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Go Back   Casebook Forums > Ripper Discussions > Motive, Method and Madness

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  #81  
Old 02-20-2012, 04:27 PM
lynn cates lynn cates is offline
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Default what a thought

Hello Scorpio.

"Perhaps the cessation of murder after such a busy temporary phase can be taken as sign that all the victims associated with JtR, were killed by different
people. The murder spree was a domino- effect situation that would eventually burn itself out if no single dedicated individual were present."

Now THERE'S a thought. (Or possibly, SOME of them were.)

Cheers.
LC
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  #82  
Old 02-21-2012, 09:17 PM
Beowulf Beowulf is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lynn cates View Post
Hello Beowulf. If the letter refers to Kosminski, as some suppose, it would be helpful if a link could be found between Aaron and either Martin Kosminski or Jessie Kosminski. They were fairly high up with respect to class; Aaron, seemingly less so. And it would seem that few of the lower social classes would be noticed by one of the peerage.

Cheers.
LC
I'm not sure I follow you. It has been documented evidently that Kosminski lived with his sister, and that is the person Crawford is possibly referring to, however I don't follow what you mean by 'few of the lower social classes would be noticed by one of the peerage'.
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  #83  
Old 02-21-2012, 10:57 PM
lynn cates lynn cates is offline
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Default social class

Hello Beowulf. The short version is this. Why would a Lord listen to the plea of a poor working class family?

On the other hand, a family like the Druitts might--given they were of a higher social class.

Cheers.
LC
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  #84  
Old 02-21-2012, 11:10 PM
ChrisGeorge ChrisGeorge is offline
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Hi Beowulf and Lynn

The tone of the Crawford letter strikes me as if the woman who related the story had some sort of social standing and was not a lower class woman who was Jewish. I might be wrong about that, but that's the impression I received from the letter as quoted in Stephen Ryder's dissertation, "Emily and the Bibliophile: A Possible Source for Macnaghten's Private Information." The letter is enigmatic and hard to pin down but there appears to be no notion that the woman was other than gentile and of sufficient social standing to approach a peer or some intermediary who contacted Crawford, as evidently was the case since the peer indicates, her "name is unknown to me."

Best regards

Chris
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  #85  
Old 02-21-2012, 11:55 PM
Ginger Ginger is offline
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Originally Posted by lynn cates View Post
Why would a Lord listen to the plea of a poor working class family?
Why not? Peers are people too. Perhaps he simply felt sorry for them. The socially prominent are going to understand better than most how it can feel when a relative does something to bring shame and notoriety on an otherwise blameless family.

-Ginger
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  #86  
Old 02-22-2012, 12:14 AM
lynn cates lynn cates is offline
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Hello Chris. Thanks. That is PRECISELY the way I see it too. It sounds like a family "of good name" being fussed over.

Cheers.
LC
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  #87  
Old 02-22-2012, 12:17 AM
lynn cates lynn cates is offline
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Default above and below

Hello Ginger. Perhaps so. But my take on LVP mores indicates that the lower social classes were even more unwilling to ask for help from above than some of the peerage were to extend it below.

Cheers.
LC
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  #88  
Old 02-22-2012, 04:58 AM
Wickerman Wickerman is offline
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Here's a simple incident that could quite easily have been the cause of the cessation of the Whitechapel murders.

At LAMBETH, JOHN BENJAMIN PERRIMAN, 40 hairdresser, living in Pennethorne-road, Peckham, was charged with being drunk and disorderly in Old Kent-road. On Wednesday night detectives Leek and Reed were in the Old Kent-road, and hearing a disturbance, went to the spot. They found the prisoner surrounded by a crowd, and it was feared he would be roughly handled as he had declared himself to be "Jack the Ripper," and had acted in a very violent manner. He flourished his arms about, and exhibited a black leather bag, about which he made some remarks. He caught hold of several women, and caused much alarm. The officers, after much difficulty, got the prisoner to the station, being followed by an excited mob. At the station the bag carried by the prisoner was searched, and in it were found two pairs of scissors, a dagger and sheath, and a life preserver. Mr. Partridge asked whether the prisoner wished to account for carrying these things about, and the prisoner said he was going to have them ground. It was further stated that the prisoner was known as the "Mad barber of Peckham." A sister of the prisoner said he had been intoxicated for a long time. She knew he had a dagger, but for what purpose he kept it she did not know. Mr. Partridge said he should remand the prisoner, and if he was not right in his mind it would, perhaps, be necessary to send him to an asylum. The prisoner, who seemed to treat the matter as a joke, asked to be allowed out on bail, but Mr. Partridge declined to accede to his request.
Times, 16 Nov. 1888.

As much as many might like a banner headline announcing the capture of the Whitechapel fiend. Quite likely he was unknowingly removed off the streets, one among many, and placed in an asylum never to be heard from again.

Regards, Jon S.
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Regards, Jon S.
It can scarcely be doubted that the same person who murdered several poor women in August and September in Whitechapel has returned to his old haunts, and been again at his hideous work. Two such monsters in human form there cannot be. The murderer of Mitre-square is, no doubt, the murderer of Dorset-street.
Times, 10 Nov. 1888.
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  #89  
Old 02-22-2012, 06:01 AM
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I've always thought septicemia could have brought an end to Jack's little games.
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  #90  
Old 02-22-2012, 06:25 AM
Beowulf Beowulf is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lynn cates View Post
Hello Beowulf. The short version is this. Why would a Lord listen to the plea of a poor working class family?

On the other hand, a family like the Druitts might--given they were of a higher social class.

Cheers.
LC
Interesting stuff, and I am thinking about it, which will take prob months more actually for me, lol, but do you not think with a madman on the loose and the town in an uproar that they would listen with just about anyone who had a tale to tell?

If a working class family member who was Jewish came forward, in all likelihood she must've had some reason for real, why else would she put herself up for possible interrogations she would not welcome?
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