Episode 50- Frances Coles: A Conversation with Trevor Bond

[jmenges]

Finally you might say...

Episode 50 of Rippercast Frances Coles: A Conversation with Trevor Bond, with special guests Howard Brown and Robert McLaughlin, is online now at the following link:

http://www.casebook.org/podcast/listen.html?id=99

We are also available on iTunes in the podcast section for free streaming, download or subscription.

Big thanks to Trevor, Robert and Howard for joining this episode of the podcast and...

Thanks for Listening!



JM

[jmenges]

FYI-

iTunes has removed the ability for podcast producers to "ping" their feed, so the show will not appear in the music store until Steve Jobs personally updates all the podcast feeds, which they say he does once daily.

If you already subscribe it may download automatically, but the listing for this episode may not appear for another few hours, or a day.

Thanks!

JM

[tnb]

Hello all,

Firstly I would just like to say a massive and public thankyou to Jonathan for giving me the great privilege of appearing on Rippercast, never mind - which I don't think any of us realised at the time - the fairly momentous milestone of a 50th episode (although Jonathan reckons it's more like 60).

I welcome and look forward to any comments on my part in the programme, however I would just like to add something of a caveat in admitting straight off that through my own fault entirely I was not as prepared for this podcast as I had hoped. Seeing as it is concerned largely with what is often seen as my 'pet subject' that is doubly embarassing. Nevertheless, I hope that does not spoil the enjoyment for anyone, and for those who recognise a few errors I hope you will forgive me. For those who may NOT have enough knowledge of the Coles case to spot my mistakes or details I may have missed, I will over the next few days return here to post up a few 'corrections' so as not to mislead anyone.

In particular, and if I took anything away from the podcast experience apart from merely a massive sense of pride and also the joy of finally getting to speak to How, Robert and - 'officially' - Jonathan, it was that it made me realise how paltry my knowledge of James Thomas Sadler was. To this end I have since begun working on a fairly large amount of research on Sadler himself, work which I hope will soon see light in a feature article. I would therefore be particularly interested in anyone who wishes to discuss the gaps in my knowledge (many of which are now hopefully some way to being filled) on this man, and/ or also the many issues that discussion of him raises.

Anyway - enjoy one and all. I certainly did.

[FrancoLoco]

Jonathan et al,

Although I lurk here more than I post here, I want you to know what a pleasure it is to watch iTunes update Rippercast for the first time in almost a year. I can only imagine the amount of logistical planning that goes into this, so thank you, thank you, thank you.

To me, this is like Christmas morning.

Frank

[richardnunweek]

Hi
Excellent show, I am as guilty as most in not knowing more about Francis Coles, I go about as far as Mckenzie then fade.
I admit to learning something , which is shameful after some 48 years of intrest....cheers for that.
Regards Richard.

[TomTomKent]

Finding out about Coles is what the podcast does well, introducing what would appear to be deep "specialist" subjects only known to the obsessive scholar in a way that shows them to be interesting and accessible for those with a casual interest, dispelling the myth that the case is "too big" for anybody but hardcore followers to get into.

The podcast strikes a brilliant balance, and i hope the good work continues.

[Dorian Gray]

JM,

Thank you, and your guests, for the Rippercasts. I've been quite ill for sometime and, though I've not felt like posting in ages, a new Rippercast is most welcome.

Regards,

Dorian

[tnb]

Hi all,

Many thanks from me personally for the response thus far to my maiden Rippercast. As promised I would just like to right a few wrongs as they say, with the following points.

Frances Coles was born on the 17th September, 1859 - NOT the 18th as I stated.

There was another White's Row situated in the parish of Bethnal Green*, but while nearby it is not the location of Hawkes' millinerry shop, from where Frances purchased her hat on Feb 12th, 1891. It was actually in Nottingham Street. The White's Row detail was a misremembering on my part of it being in Bethnal Green and also Sadler mentioning a White's Row in his statement. However this is the more common White's Row which he refers to in correcting himself about the location of Spitalfields Chambers (he had said it was in Dorset St). Sadler's alcohol consumption during the period he is trying to recall makes his statement extremely difficult even to follow, never mind to theorise from or recall off hand.

We have no exact timings for Sadler's attack in Flower and Dean/ Thrawl St - although Sadler states it was 'getting dark' his opinions is at best unreliable (see above), as this would have been at approx 5.30 pm, and seemingly more reliable inquest testimony places that buying of the hat as a couple of hours later than that. I am currently working on tying Sadler's movements into some kind of cohesive whole, but it is not easy. A current best guess would be more in line with that given in a recent Casebook Examiner article by Monty and Jon Simons, who place the attack at 10pm. My estimate of 11pm given in the podcast is therefore not necessarily wrong, but I thought I should just point out that it may have been made to sound a little more definite than is really the case.

Frances and Sadler DID meet up again in the early hours of the 13th Feb, in the kitchen of Spitalfields Chanbers. Sadler was kicked out for having no money first, and Frances soon followed. This 'reunion' occured at approximately 1am. Interestingly, they did not quarrel - although there are a lot of other interesting points about this incident raised by the various witnesses to it, which I hope to explore in more depth soon.

Most embarrasing confession here, and completely my error. The docks to which Sadler attempted to gain entry were NOT located over a mile away (or whatever figure I gave) but merely a few streets away from Royal Mint St - Saint Katherine's Docks, the gate to which was located in East Smitfield. This clearly has a massive bearing on the case against Sadler (if you want to go down that route) although even so, the timings are extremely tight. Nevertheless, I can only apologise.

Also, as pointed out by Neil Bell, I appeared to confuse the 'Princess Alice' (Commercial Street, where Coles and Sadler met on the 11th Feb 1891) with the 'Prince Albert' (Brushfield Street, owned by Mrs Fiddymont). For the record it WAS the Princess Alice where Coles and Sadler met, but there is no known connection between that pub, Mrs Fiddymont or indeed Jacob Isenschmidt.

Finally, and not actually an error but a clarification, people may have noticed me variously referring to the author of 'Carrotty Nell' as John or Jack Keefe. John E. Keefe, to give him his full title, is the name under which the book is published, his birth name - however 'Jack' is, as is common, his 'nickname', and it is as Jack that I have addressed him when speaking via email. Therefore, both versions slip out over the course of the recording. But if you are looking for the book, you want John, not Jack.


As I said before, I hope these didn't either mislead people or detract from their enjoyment of the podcast, which really is a tribute to a collective pool of talent within which I am but a small newt.

* Colin Roberts has since pointed out that the 'other' White's Row, which is now part of Durward Street, was NOT it would appear in the parish of Bethnal Green, although it was mightily close and WAS within the jurisdiction of Bethnal Green police division, which are the boundaries I tend to refer to off the top of my head. You pay your money and take your choice. Nottingham Street definitively was in Bethnal Green.

[Monty]

Trevor,

The errors are honest ones which certainly happen in books and other TV, radio shows and Podcasts.

They certainly didn't detract from the Podcast and considering they wealth of info regarding the case its difficult to be on top of it all.

Maybe you show have chosen McKenzie ;-)

Monty

[Steadmund Brand]

I also wanted to say thank you for the new podcast and say how much I enjoyed it.. and again say welcome back.

Trevor you were excellent and as was Robert and it was nice to hear Howard Brown back as well.

not to sound greedy.. but can't wait for the next one.

thanks again

Steadmun Brand

[ghoulstonstreet]

New Ideas, Thanks for the new Podcast

Finally you might say...

Episode 50 of Rippercast Frances Coles: A Conversation with Trevor Bond, with special guests Howard Brown and Robert McLaughlin, is online now at the following link:

http://www.casebook.org/podcast/listen.html?id=99

We are also available on iTunes in the podcast section for free streaming, download or subscription.

Big thanks to Trevor, Robert and Howard for joining this episode of the podcast and...

Thanks for Listening!



JM

Thanks for the latest podcast, yes we were all waiting anxxiously. You mentioned that you were in dire need of new ideas/material. How about an interview with some modern profilers who might give their take on these old cases. Since many of us are skeptical about profiling you will get some lively discussion!
Also, I'm personally interested in the descendants of the victims and I dare say the descendants of the investigators! Some of these people will want to come forward and others won't.
Is it imposible for you to add a link to the James Mason-narrated film? It is oh so hard to view online without a purchase.
Another idea: what about a collection of quotes from the royal family, lords, ladies and other "haves" about what was going on in 1888? Did they have any regard for the safety of the "have nots"? What did they think was going on? Thanks, ghoustonstreet

[Archaic]

Video: 'The London Nobody Knows'

Hi Ghoulstonstreet. Here's a link to 'The London Nobody Knows' on YouTube. It's in 4 parts, but I believe it is the whole documentary rather than excerpts.

'The London Nobody Knows' http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fvIOjzZdRLM

I think a Rippercast interviewing descendants of Ripper-related individuals would be fascinating. The logistics involved might prove a challenge, but it's a great idea.

Best regards,
Archaic