Hyam Hyams: Portrait of a Suspect

[tji]

Hi Debs

I agree it is very intereseting, I think when you research someone for so long, any new information found is excititng.

I am not sure, but it does sound a good explanation for him changing asylums, wonder if he knew Jacob Levy - two Ripper suspect together sat discussing who they think it is. "I think it's that crazy one, they dragged in off the street what his name - eat out of dustbins - what about you Jacob?"
"I'm just glad we in here mate, no-one will ever suspect us"


Tj

[tji]

I do realise they were probably not in the same asylum at thre same time - but then my little anecdote wouldn't have worked.

Tj

[Debra A]

Hi Debs

I agree it is very intereseting, I think when you research someone for so long, any new information found is excititng.

I am not sure, but it does sound a good explanation for him changing asylums, wonder if he knew Jacob Levy - two Ripper suspect together sat discussing who they think it is. "I think it's that crazy one, they dragged in off the street what his name - eat out of dustbins - what about you Jacob?"
"I'm just glad we in here mate, no-one will ever suspect us"


Tj

[Errata]

Some records relating to Hyam Hyams's family are in the registers of the Great Synagogue (which have been microfilmed by the Latter-day Saints).
[ATTACH]10811[/ATTACH]

If it matters at all, the Hebrew on the documents is exactly the same as the English. English name in English, Hebrew name in Hebrew, Gregorian date in English, Hebrew calendar date in Hebrew etc.

[Chris]

Thanks Tracy, they don't really give any new info but the issues over settlement are interesting, (to me anyway! ) the various unions really were strict on this issue from what I've seen.
I wonder if that is why Hyam was transfered to Colney Hatch in 1890?

From a completely different viewpoint, it's given me an excellent clue to Ancestry's chaotic arrangement of the City of London lunacy records. I had been looking in the "Register of Lunatics" section, which contains the 1887-8 volume of reception orders in full, and - bizarrely - the first dozen or two images only from most of the other volumes. It seems that the rest of the images, and at least some of the missing volumes, are in the "Orders of Removal" section.

The LMA reference for the volume containing the Hyam Hyams documents is CBG/315/019.

[Rob Clack]

Strangely I was at the London Metropolitan Archives today.

I had a look at the 'City of London Lunatic Asylum, Case Book, Male Patients No. 7' Reference CLA/001/B/02/007.

Hyam Hyams is on page 80. I don't know if these have been seen before.





Rob

[Debra A]

Thanks Rob,
It's interesting to note that this record, as in the orders of removal record I posted a snippet from on JTRforums, mentions Hyams " terror of the police who had charge of him: feared they were about to strike or kill him..."

http://www.jtrforums.com/showthread.php?t=11145&highlight=hyam+hyams

As I mentioned, this is completely different to him being labelled 'the terror of the City of London Police', that has been handed down to us previously.

[Chris]

Thanks to Rob and Debs.

I'm sure that interpretation of the "terror" comment is right, and I agree that the difference from what's in the dissertations is significant.

[tji]

Hi Rob

These records are great!!! Thanks for posting them.

It has to be said though that to him his delusions must have seemed real if he can actually name a Dr Long as the man his wife co-habited with and conspired with to poison him. I suppose a logical innocent explanation for his paranoia would be Dr Long being the doctor treating him and giving his wife the medicine to give to Hyam.
Either way his wife seemed to bring out the worst in him whether he was 'having an episode' or calm.

Hi Debs

I agree it shows a different side to the information we have used over the years. I wonder if he had first hand knowledge to be 'in terror' of them or was just part of his paranoia.

Tj

[Mondegreen]

I didn't know much about this suspect so I decided to read the Casebook.org file on him.

One thing that gave me pause was that he at one point lived next to a shop where a man entered and asked for Lusk's address shortly before Lusk received a kidney in the mail. Apparently the girl who worked at the shop thought the man was suspicious and sent a shop boy after him. If this is correct, then it begs the question of how the girl did not recognize someone who lived just next door? It's not impossible, but I'd assume if it was him then he would have seemed familiar to her, unless one or both of them just didn't spend much time in the area when they weren't at home or work (respectively). I've also read that the description she gave did not fit Hyams but this makes me think the man she saw was not Hyams (although of course, it's possible that the man she saw was not the Ripper, either).

[Patrick S]

I didn't know much about this suspect so I decided to read the Casebook.org file on him.

One thing that gave me pause was that he at one point lived next to a shop where a man entered and asked for Lusk's address shortly before Lusk received a kidney in the mail. Apparently the girl who worked at the shop thought the man was suspicious and sent a shop boy after him. If this is correct, then it begs the question of how the girl did not recognize someone who lived just next door? It's not impossible, but I'd assume if it was him then he would have seemed familiar to her, unless one or both of them just didn't spend much time in the area when they weren't at home or work (respectively). I've also read that the description she gave did not fit Hyams but this makes me think the man she saw was not Hyams (although of course, it's possible that the man she saw was not the Ripper, either).

You have stumbled upon one of the frustrating things about Ripperology. There are so many loose strings that may or may not be a part of the cloth. Hyams lived near the shop where a man inquired as to Lusk's address. If it was Hyams, why didn't she know him? Did the man who asked for the address send the kidney? Was it Katherine Eddowe's kidney? Was the man who sent the kidney Jack the Ripper?

[robhouse]

(I Posted this on jtrforums http://www.jtrforums.com/showthread....747#post281747, and thought I'd also post it here to see if there was any additional response. Several people seem to think these are not the same person, but I am not so sure... and I am interested in robert Linford's comment: "On second thoughts, this depends on whether Ancestry's Colney Hatch records are complete. If they are, then (barring a fairly bad mistranscription) this is Hyam, because there is no one else that it could have been.")

I found this photo of "H. Hyams" a couple years back at the LMA, when looking through one of the Colney Hatch photo books (I am embarrassed to admit I didn't note which book this was in).

I didn't think much of it at the time... or rather, I made a mental note of it, but never followed it up.

Anyway, the photo I am talking about is the one on the left, labelled "1896. H Hyams." Comparing this to the known photo of Hyam Hyams at right, it looks to me like the same person. Has this photo been discussed before. I do not remember seeing it.

Rob House

[Pcdunn]

I think the nose and brow seem very similar, indeed.

[Rosella]

^ The person on the left seems to me to have a different shaped nose, broader and thicker than that on the right. It's hard to tell what the chin would be like with a bearded man but his nose definitely seems a bit more aquiline.

[DRoy]

Thanks for posting these Rob!

I can see similarities for sure but I wonder if I'm trying to see them. Even though the mouth is quite covered in the second photo, the mouth looks exactly alike to me. However, the ears seem quite different in size and shape. Based on the ears alone I'd say they are different men.

Cheers
DRoy