William Bury the Whitechapel Murderer ?

[johns]

Welcome guys to the Bury threads.

Hey Roy... from what date would you say that sign was?

[Roy Corduroy]

John, my best guess is the sign dates from 1900-1965 when it was the Metropolitan Borough of Poplar.
Here's a Flickr page with photos of road signs in Bow. (click here)

Roy

[curious]

Originally Posted by Roy Corduroy

Hi Curious and Anna and a warm welcome to you both-

I recommend a new book on this subject The Trial of Jack the Ripper by Euan Macpherson. The author makes a good case for Bury also being the Whitechapel fiend. Not only because he killed his wife, there's more than that. He descibes a scenario which unfolds. I don't want to give it away, though.

It was a very reasonable price at amazon. Only $3 plus freight. So you might want to give it a try.

Again, welcome to the discussion group,

Roy

Thanks for the welcome, Roy.

Just beginning to explore.

Just a quick question about the book -- does the writer tie in Bury's seeming to expand his business (new business cards, and a business address) with the newly acquired items of some of the victims?

Thanks,

Velma

[Roy Corduroy]

Hi Vel, no connection to his business with items from the victims.

Roy

[miss_anna]

Originally Posted by Roy Corduroy

Hi Curious and Anna and a warm welcome to you both-

I recommend a new book on this subject The Trial of Jack the Ripper by Euan Macpherson. The author makes a good case for Bury also being the Whitechapel fiend. Not only because he killed his wife, there's more than that. He descibes a scenario which unfolds. I don't want to give it away, though.

It was a very reasonable price at amazon. Only $3 plus freight. So you might want to give it a try.

Again, welcome to the discussion group,

Roy

Hi Roy and thanks for the Welcome!
I'm sure that book would certainly be a lot more reality orientated than the nonsensical money making stuff that the ripper industry has spewed out! We have to admit that if a mean spirited drunk and common criminal like Bury is the ripper the jtr cult would implode immediately! The people going on the ripper tours want entertainment! A horrific royal scandal or a fiendish mad hatter!
A ripper tour presenting Bury and Klosowski as prime suspects and sticking to facts and comparisons with other serial killers will not make the money that other ripper tours would make!

[curious]

Roy,
I "latched on" to Bury as my favorite suspect early on.

I can't get away from the fact that Polly Nichols had a new hat, Annie Chapman had recently acquired rings (that were stolen when she was killed), and Liz Stride had a large new piece of green velvet and a flower on her busom. Too much to be coincidential I feel.

What if the recently acquired items were not gifts, but were "purchased" from a hawker?

In a biography of Bury on this site, written by Mrs. Perfect, Bury is mentioned as selling pencils and trinkets at one point in his life.

He was supposed to be hawking sawdust in Whitechapel, but seemed to be spending his time more in the pubs, neglecting his sawdust business.

Well, just before going to the races, he did things that makes it appear that he was expanding his business. (could have been for show perhaps, flashing his wife's money, but . . . )

He had business cards made up.

He also appeared to have taken an "office" because his business address on the card was different from the residence address (I'm not sure what the foundation for this is. More research required on my part) So, Bury had somewhere to hide his trophies. Somewhere the wife wouldn't know what was going on with him. And he was already staying out overnight, sometimes for a couple of days, or so I've read here somewhere.

With his sawdust business locating him in White Chapel and the liklihood of his stabling his cart and pony there while he drank, he had reason and time to explore. That also gave him a base to "sleep off" his drunks, carry clean clothes, the items he was selling, etc. or he could clean up after one of the murders. He had become part of the landscape there and would not be noticable, spending the night after too much drinking. Just the usual.

So, what if he was expanding his business to include trinkets and furbelows which he was hawking there in Whitechapel? He had access to enough money to purchase the items to sell.

Can't you just see him flattering Polly Nichols with the hat: "It's you, love. Can't see anyone else in that."

Even if she couldn't pay, well, "take it, love. You're good for it." wink

Money's not the only way for a prostitute to pay for an item . . . not with what seems to have been Bury's reputation already.

"But this has to be our little secret. You can't tell anyone or I'd never make another penny."

Without there being a reason for Polly not to tell, I think if the hat had been a gift from a man, likely everyone would have known.

So, Polly had her jolly bonnet. Annie Chapman had her rings, etc.

He knew the victims, they knew (and therefore trusted) him.

That even explains the drunk arguing with Liz Stride after she'd told him, "No, not tonight. Another night."

Even though he manhandled here, she wasn't afraid of him and didn't cry loudly for help. She knew him, she'd just done business with him. He'd thrown in the flower after she bought the velvet.

Any thoughts on this scenerio?

[johns]

Hi curious

First of all I'm a Buryite. I've researched this guy myself, found a few new snippets out about him and walked the streets where he lived in London and Stourbridge. Just saying that upfront so you don't think I'm just having a bash at you.

You say "With his sawdust business locating him in White Chapel". Sadly there isn't any evidence of this. It's only a 45 minute walk and less by horse and cart so there is the strong possibility he frequented Whitechapel for the pubs, ladies and very occasional bit of sawdust selling, but no hard evidence of this. Damn eh...

He may have tried to expand his sawdust empire and flog a trinket or 2 as well but it's speculation really.

As for him buying the ladies trinkets and such like... yes I could see it happening. It's a possible. However I really see Bury blowing any money he has on booze.

So... what points you towards Bury rather than the other suspects?

John

[curious]

Bury's background, the kind of man he appears to have been, his size, just what he was more than any of the others.

The more I read, the more dots connect with him and they don't connect at all with the other named suspects.

But, didn't I read somewhere that he bought the pony and cart to hawk sawdust in Whitechapel?

I'm sure I've seen that.

And I know that as a recent arrival to interest in JTR (and it's not likely to be sustained very long) I'm not as secure in the facts as many of you are.

[Sam Flynn]

Originally Posted by curious

Bury's background, the kind of man he appears to have been, his size, just what he was more than any of the others.

More than the other "usual suspects", perhaps - but there were tens of thousands of similar characters in the East End at the time whose stories we don't know, several of whom could have been more likely "Rippers" than Bury.

[johns]

We know he bought the pony and cart to hawk sawdust but I don't think Whitechapel was mentioned anywhere as a specific target area. Very possible though.

At one point a year or so ago I had a list of every pub and butcher shop in the East of London and I was going to attempt some kind of map, but sadly I haven't got that project off the ground yet what with work, life etc getting in the way.

My theory is you see that there were more of these establishments in Whitechapel than where Bury lived, and this would have given him more reason to travel Westwards than ply his trade round his own locale. Not much of a theory, but to me at least it would provide a reason for him to learn the streets there.

Wouldn't have proved anything though. Nothing much does or will prove anything in JtR land.

John