"...but because you are going to hang me you will get nothing out of me..."

[John Wheat]

To DRoy

With all due respect there is a complete lack of tangible evidence against the majority of suspects. Bury is at least a proven murderer and one who used a knife to mutilate. Admittedly the mutilations were not as extreme as the majority of the Ripper murders.

As for posting on other threads I have posted on other threads and looked at other suspects. I even started a thread asking for info on Wentworth Bellsmith one of the more obscure Ripper suspects and one that we know very little about.

[curious]

Bury is at least a proven murderer and one who used a knife to mutilate. Admittedly the mutilations were not as extreme as the majority of the Ripper murders.

Good Morning, John,
An aspect I found particularly interesting was William Beadle's side-by-side comparisons of the injuries to Ellen Elliott Bury and those of the canonical five victims. The similarities are eerie.

As you would expect with six victims and various doctors describing the wounds, there are variations, but . . .

Also, Bury going back to cut on Ellen is very like the actions of known serial killers.

curious

[John Wheat]

To Curious

I agree with what your saying as regards Ellen Bury's murder. Bury going back to mutilate Ellen is like the actions of known serial killers. As opposed to a drunken wife beater who went too far and ended up killing his wife.

Cheers John

[curious]

To Curious

I agree with what your saying as regards Ellen Bury's murder. Bury going back to mutilate Ellen is like the actions of known serial killers. As opposed to a drunken wife beater who went too far and ended up killing his wife.

Cheers John

Exactly, John.

Plus, there's the question -- WHY kill her at all? WHY move her to Dundee?

Once he had spent her money, all he had to do was pick up her little basket of jewelry and leave.

UNLESS . . .

curious

[John Wheat]

To curious

I can't fault your reasoning. Bury is in my opinion the strongest suspect.

Cheers John

[Abby Normal]

Hello, Abby,
It seems that the testimony that Bury could write in different hands came from Ellen Bury's sister, Margaret Corney, when she testified against William Henry Bury at his trial in Dundee.

Other interesting information about Bury's whereabouts on the nights of the Ripper murders came from crime reporter Norman Hastings, via William Beadle's "Jack the Ripper Unmasked."

Also, when the police checked on Bury (again according to Hastings) they learned that he walked about "very quietly and had often frightened people by his silent approach," which called to mind a person who reported him going about outdoors in his slippers.

All intriguingly reminiscent of JtR.

curious

Thanks curious!

[Abby Normal]

Sorry John but you might equally ask: "If Bury was Jack, why would he go to the trouble of moving to Dundee to murder Ellen? Why not just cut her throat in London and get her more easily attributed as one of the series credited to the mystery killer?"

Just saying...

All the best

Dave

Hi cog
That's a great question. A couple of things. first of all, if he thought Ellen had an inkling that he was jack then I can see why he would want to get her out of London and also to kill her to keep her quiet. Also, if he killed her in London, then he would have brought the heat on himself for not only her murder, but for the ripper murders as well. Maybe he thought moving to Dundee could accomplish all these, and also to get his own arse out of London if he thought it was getting too hot after the Kelly murder. All this of course makes sense if he was the ripper.

How about this question: if bury was not the ripper, why move to Dundee?

[John Wheat]

To Abby Normal

"How about this question: if bury was not the ripper, why move to Dundee?"

Why indeed? Dundee seems a long way to go when Bury could have murdered Ellen in London.

Cheers John

[Cogidubnus]

Hi cog
That's a great question. A couple of things. first of all, if he thought Ellen had an inkling that he was jack then I can see why he would want to get her out of London and also to kill her to keep her quiet. Also, if he killed her in London, then he would have brought the heat on himself for not only her murder, but for the ripper murders as well. Maybe he thought moving to Dundee could accomplish all these, and also to get his own arse out of London if he thought it was getting too hot after the Kelly murder. All this of course makes sense if he was the ripper.

How about this question: if bury was not the ripper, why move to Dundee

Hi Abby

I suspect, most of her funds gone, and only her jewellery remaining, (not amongst the effects found after her death by the way!), Ellen had become something of an encumbrance...to dispose of her (and perhaps benefit from the few remaining assets) he might well have decided they needed to be away from the somewhat baleful presence of her sister...

Why specifically Dundee who can say...but why specifically Dundee is the same puzzle whether Bury's the ripper or not!

All the best

Dave

[johns]

Whichever town Bury and Ellen went to would have the same end result.

Why Huddersfield? Why Truro? Why Droitwich? and so on and so forth.

[Boggles]

why specifically Dundee

In my opinion the clue is in the fake letter of employment.

He must have heard of the names of the owners of that jute company somehow, from an employee. Beadle speculates they would have been working around Popular at this time, a short walk from Bury's lodgings in Bow.

Of note from the trial notes was that he wasn't particular open about where he was going to either, told his landlord he was going to Australia.

[Cogidubnus]

Hi Will

I'm not convinced - there has to be a sound reason why he picked Dundee...it's not exactly an obvious destination - this is an intelligent man with a reasonable education after all....he doesn't seem to do things without some degree of reason - It's just that so far, in this case, we don't seem to know it...

We cannot even be sure, factually, why he left London at all...we can speculate (and most of us have one way or the other - the obvious reason being to kill Ellen and grab her remaining inheritance from the basket, without her suspicious sister knowing)...but we still don't know for sure...

As johns says

Whichever town Bury and Ellen went to would have the same end result.

Why Huddersfield? Why Truro? Why Droitwich? and so on and so forth.

To my mind there has to be some reason we simply don't know about yet....

All the best

Dave

[Wyatt Earp]

I generally dont like this Berry bashing ive seen in the past, i think he was a great man, contributing as much as he did to humane exectutions.

But his description of bury's hanging does trouble me because he didnt mention him in his book 'my experinces as an executioner' which he wrote before this - (not in the first edition i dug out of the britsih libary at any rate), he mentioned it afterwards in this newspaper report- so why didnt he put it in his book??? if he was that certain he was jack the ripper.

If Berry’s account is legitimate, my best guess would be that the two detectives told him to keep his mouth shut about what they’d said to him. This could have led Berry to steer clear of the topic entirely in his book, which was published in 1892, I think, not all that long after the murders.

Berry took a keen interest in his “victims” and it’s hard to believe he could have left Dundee without having become aware of the local chatter that Bury was possibly the Ripper. Even if the conversation with the two detectives never took place, Berry, then, would have had the opportunity to work “Jack the Ripper” into his book, which would have raised the profile of the book and no doubt would have helped sales. He could have simply approached it along the lines of “There was this talk in town that Bury might be the Ripper, and here is my impression of the man.” The fact that Berry was stone cold silent about Bury in his book, when the book includes vignettes about other “victims,” is something that I think is interesting.

[Edward]

Bury's description?

Hello All -

Do we have a good description of Bury? Height, weight, hair color, etc?

Edward

[Harry D]

Hello All -

Do we have a good description of Bury? Height, weight, hair color, etc?

Edward

Dark hair and beard, 5'3" inches tall, and weighed less than 64kg.

Apparently.