Monty Goes Out For Dinner

[m_w_r]

This is from the Times, 30 November 1887:



Regards,

Mark

[Johnr]

Thanks Mark,
I have the 1897 Western Circuit Law List, which features some semi-contemporary Inner Temple graduates of MJD; a couple went to Winchester roughly round MJDs time as well.
Importantly, is the " Charles Matthews" listed the Home Secretary? If so, we have Druitt on the same circuit.(There is a C.W.MaThews - one 'T' - in the 1897 Western Circuit Law List.
Can anyone check Fosters or a Mathews biog. for the Home Secretary's circuit? To see if this is, in fact, him? Thanks. JOHN RUFFELS.

[John Savage]

Hi John,

The Home Secretary in 1888 was Henry Matthews. I take it that is the Home Secretary you mean?

I wonder if the names are given in the order they were seated at table as we have the Lord Chief Justice etc. at the top table and somewhat leser known names further down, if this were so it would give an idea of the seniority of Monty in the Western Circuit?

Rgds
John

[m_w_r]

Hi chaps -

I am not sure that we can judge that much by the order of the names; clearly, the more significant figures are near the top, but Monty is in with the D's in a list which is ABC-ordered, and so he's probably as insignificant as anyone else from "... and Messrs. J.V. Austin" down. The only other name I had heard of on the list is Edward Oliver Pleydell Bouverie, an associate and tennis partner of the much more renowned Edward Marshall Hall.

Regards,

Mark

[Mayerling]

Who's Who With Monty

Sir John Duke Coleridge, 1st Baron Coleridge, Lord Chief Justice of Great Britain (1820 - 1894). He was the oldest son of Sir John Taylor Coleridge
(1790 - 1876), a judge of the King's Bench and the nephew of the poet Samuel Taylor Coleridge. Sir John made a reputation as a great barrister in many celebrated cases (such as for the defendants in the Overend Gurney
Fraud Case and the Ticheborne Claimant case). He succeeded Sir Alexander Cockburn as Lord Chief Justice in 1880. His most noteworthy homicide
case as Chief Justice was the trial of Percy Lefroy Mapleton for the murder of Frederick Gold on the Brighton railway line in June 1881.

"W. Phillimore" is Sir Walter G. F. Phillimore, the son of Sir Robert Phillimore
(1810 - 1885) an admiralty judge. Walter was born in 1845 and (according to the article in the 11th Edition of the Encyclopaedia Britannica, vol 21, p. 405) was an authority on ecclesiastical and admiralty law, becoming a judge of the high court in 1897. I am unable to say when he died.

Charles Synge Christopher Bowen, Baron Bowen (1835 - 1894). He went to Oxford, and then Lincoln Inn. He was junior to Coleridge in the Ticheborne Case (the two men were close friends, with Bowen frequently getting positions that Coleridge had before when Coleridge was promoted). In 1879 Justice Mellor retired, and Bowen got appointed to a Judgeship. His remarkable clarity in decisions got him the post of Lord Justice on the Court of Appeal upon the retirement of Sir John Holker in 1882 (Holker had gone blind and retired for that reason). He left his mark on the Court of Appeal in a series of judgments applying law to business and living problems that were remarkably lucid.

Mr. Justice Lopes was the trial judge at the trial of burglar - murderer Charles Peace in 1879.

Sir Charles Mathews was the head of public prosecutions after 1907 and up to 1920.

Mr. Bucknill, Q.C. I think became Mr. Justice Bucknill. His most notable moment as a criminal court judge was at the trial of Frederick Seddon in
1912. Bucknill was a leading figure in Mason circles. Seddon was a Mason,
and when the jury verdict against him was read, he was asked if he had anything further to say before sentence was passed. Seddon proceeded to address the justice, insisting on his innocence, and insisting that as a fellow Mason it was wrong for Bucknill to pronounced sentence of death against him.
This unnerved Bucknill (apparently nobody ever did this before in a British court). Pulling himself together, and fighting back tears, Bucknill appologized to Seddon that the tradition of their fraternal organization worked against
condoning or pardoning murder - that he had to pronounce sentence. But Bucknill hoped that Seddon would make his peace with his God. Seddon gravely acknowledged he was at peace.

Best wishes,

Jeff

[Mayerling]

I thought about it. The "H.E. Duke" who is listed next to Monty is probably Mr. Henry Duke, who was a well-regarded barrister in his day, who eventually was Attorney General.

Jeff

[Supe]

Jeff,

"W. Phillimore" is Sir Walter G. F. Phillimore

Do you suppose he could be related to "Mr. James Phillimore, who, stepping back into his own house to get his umbrella, was never more seen in this world"?

Don.

[Mayerling]

Walter and James

There was a retelling of the Phillimore disappearance called THE ADVENTURE OF THE HIGHGATE MIRACLE by John Dickson Carr and Dr. W's literary agent's son in the 1950s. It is less likely that James Phillimore was related to Sir Walter than that he may have been connected to one Mr. Hosmer Angel, who stepped into a cab in the 1880s and never was found (except by one gentleman who chased another one out of his residence with a horse whip).

Jeff

[Johnr]

Hello Jeff,
I really enjoy your biographical postings which provide such interesting details of the lives of now-forgotten judges, criminals and the writings of Sir Arthur Conan Doyle.
They often take us far away from the corpse upstream from Hammersmith bridge. But, hey, so does Life!
Regarding the name Phillimore.Or Phillamore. I recall years ago attending a musty genealogical library which had a row of books called " the Phillamores"...
They were compilations of some kind. Possibly, parish registers or something.
JOHN RUFFELS.

[Johnr]

More On Phillimore..

I have just noticed on my 1897 Western Circuit Law List, there is mention of:
"Phillimore, sir W.G.F., D.C.L., bart.(pat. prec.) ". JOHN RUFFELS.

[Mayerling]

Hello Jeff,
I really enjoy your biographical postings which provide such interesting details of the lives of now-forgotten judges, criminals and the writings of Sir Arthur Conan Doyle.
They often take us far away from the corpse upstream from Hammersmith bridge. But, hey, so does Life!
Regarding the name Phillimore.Or Phillamore. I recall years ago attending a musty genealogical library which had a row of books called " the Phillamores"...
They were compilations of some kind. Possibly, parish registers or something.
JOHN RUFFELS.

Hi John,

I am a little put out because this web site has again undermined my attempt at writing a proper response. Thank you for your kind comment, but when I tried to write a good response, the same damn tricks happened about the logging in (which I had done) having to be repeated, and when I tried to manipulate the thread to publish my comment after I did this useless repeat logging I was forced to find my words all gone forever because the web site is faulty.

Somebody ought to check this - why does this happen all the time?

Basically I was trying to make a comparison of my commenting on long dead legal figures or Conan Doyle to Edith Hamilton's comparison of Thucydides and Xenophon's views of wartime Athens in the War with Sparta (in her book THE GREEK WAY). Hamilton said that Xenophon's view of life in Athens as one where people managed to enjoy themselves was as valid as Thucydides' more bleak view of a great city destroyed by ambition and greed. My point is that we have to continue noting the more pleasant or lighter aspects of life in the England in 1888 in order to balance the bleakness and horror of Whitechapel that year.

Best wishes,

Jeff

[aspallek]

Jeff,

I'm sorry you are having trouble with the web site and I'm afraid there isn't anything I can do about it except make the very obvious suggestion that for the time being you copy your post into your clipboard before attempting to send it.

[Mayerling]

Hi Andy,

I have a scanner in my printer - but I don't know how to use the scanner.
If I did I might attach the scanned responses to the thread messages.

Jeff

[Supe]

Jeff,

You are quite right, I have always found the Holmes story a grand palliative to the Ripper's reign of terror, though both have many of the elements that contribute to our continuing fascination with the LVP: Gas-lit, cobbled streets down which Hansom cabs clatter combined with the urgency and excitement generated by the burgeoning technological advances of the Industrial Revolution.

Yet, the two worlds--Whitechapel and Baker Street--were truly mutually exclusive. To my mind there is no doubt why Doyle (Dr Watson's literary agent if you will) never involved Holmes in the anything like the Ripper murders--they were incompatible. Holmes may have been able to pass easily as a coachman, plumber or even benighted addict in a Limehouse opium den, but the Whitechapel murders were not for him. Even the seemingly squalis murders of "The Six Napoleons" had at the end of the trail a gem of international renown.

Only a "Royal Conspiracy" angle would have interested Holmes in the East End prostitute murders--and thankfully we were spared that nonsense.

Don.

[Mayerling]

Hi Don,

You got the right idea - one needs a sense of balance in understanding the past - that even in the worst incidents there were some glimmers of light
(and also in the best of achievements there were seeds of future problems).
Life is just not a set of black and white blocks. The colors are more fluid with each other.

Best wishes,

Jeff