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Was Mary Kelly more involved in murder

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  • Was Mary Kelly more involved in murder

    Ok .. i have a strange new theory , and i am looking forward to being shot down in flames with it , its kind of troubling to me as i'm sure it will be to you , but the more witness statements i read , the more i find my self being dragged into the whole " Team Ripper malarkey " i have always been confident that it was more than one person involved in the murders , and although i don't really have a main suspect or for that matter a motive , i do however believe that to evade discovery at each crime scene so successfully (without buying into that ol lucky Jack theory ) he must of had some kind of a lookout .. Now i know the Schwartz statement lends weight to this ( especially the one he gave to the press ) pertaining to the Stride murder .. But here is where my engines catch fire if they haven't already , what if a certain Mary Jane Kelly was part of this lookout team ( please read on before you slaughter me ) A man and a woman were seen blocking the doorway at 29 Hanbury street during the Chapman murder/placement and also at the entrance to Mitre Square and in both instances the man and woman both hid their faces from fear of recognition , in fact the only positive identification made, was the shawl that the alleged victim was wearing , something that Kelly could have quite easily have wrapped around her shoulder not only to mislead people but also to keep warm .And was Kelly's the voice that was herd saying " Oh No " in the backyard of 29 Hanbury street whilst helping to drop off poor Annie ? And finally just before my plane hits the ground ! is it possible that the cry of "oh Murder " heard in Millers court was actually just an argument between Kelly and her Killer , somewhere along the lines of " mary keep your voice down , dya want the whole court to know " to a reply of " Know what OH MURDER .. MURDER "... so was Mary killed simply to shut her up , then ripped to pieces to make it look like just another Jack the Ripper murder ? ok I've got my parachute on you can start shooting .

    Moonbegger

  • #2
    Hi Moonbegger.

    It's certainly an idea that I've not come across before, so I'll give it some thought tomorrow when I'm less tired. The obvious difficulty would be that Mrs Elizabeth Long identified the woman outside 29, Hanbury Street as the same woman she saw in the mortuary, i.e. Annie Chapman. Chapman was 20 years older than MJK and she looked it. I'm sure you'll get some interesting feed-back.

    Regards, Bridewell.
    I won't always agree but I'll try not to be disagreeable.

    Comment


    • #3
      new leper

      Hello MB.

      "I find my self being dragged into the whole " Team Ripper malarkey " I have always been confident that it was more than one person involved in the murders"

      There, there MB. Have a lie down and watch an episode of CSI--you'll be alright, and fight this thing off.

      Now repeat after me one hundred times, "Local unknown, local unknown, local unknown . . ."

      Cheers.
      LC

      Comment


      • #4
        Hi Moonbegger

        I think you're wandering into the realms of fantasy there.

        Comment


        • #5
          Hi Moonbegger

          I agree with strange. I agree with new. I agree with Lynn. I agree with Robert.

          Regards, Bridewell.
          I won't always agree but I'll try not to be disagreeable.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by lynn cates
            There, there MB. Have a lie down and watch an episode of CSI--you'll be alright, and fight this thing off.

            Now repeat after me one hundred times, "Local unknown, local unknown, local unknown . . ."
            LOL. And keep telling yourself, "I'm not really interested in who the Ripper was. That doesn't interest me at all. I just like East End history." How do you know a Ripperologist is lying? When he says the foregoing.

            Moonbeggar,

            I've read much more ludicrous ideas than yours, and some from respected authors. At least you're trying to connect the dots. As Bridewell pointed out, the obvious difficulty is the fact that the woman outside the door of 29 Hanbury Street was indeed identified as Chapman.

            Yours truly,

            Tom Wescott

            Comment


            • #7
              Annie

              Hello Tom.

              "The fact that the woman outside the door of 29 Hanbury Street was indeed identified as Chapman."

              Yes, and by FACE not clothing.

              Cheers.
              LC

              Comment


              • #8
                And the Ripper is . . .

                Hello (again) Tom.

                "And keep telling yourself, "I'm not really interested in who the Ripper was. That doesn't interest me at all. I just like East End history." How do you know a Ripperologist is lying? When he says the foregoing."

                Right. Deny it all we like--we all want the truth to out. And if Judgment Day does not reveal the Ripper, I just may give it a miss. (heh-heh)

                Cheers.
                LC

                Comment


                • #9
                  Mary J Kelly's Alias

                  Hey Crew,

                  Moonbegger, having come up with some whopper strange theories of my own, I really can't nitpick yours, I say more power to you. Its nice to get out of the boundaries and explore the preconceived notions of the case.

                  Right now Ripper related I am wondering if Mary Jane Kelly was Mary J Kelly. The alias Mary Kelly was so common. I seriously wonder if the woman known as Mary Jane Kelly of Miller's Court wasn't christened with another name and married a man with another name besides Davies.

                  So unless somebody drops me a line with proof that Mary J Kelly was actually Mary J Kelly, I am still on the fence on who the young woman was who resided as Miller's Court in the autumn of 1888. I also wonder how many alias she had or if she was married at 16 or had even been to France. How is that for a wild theory?

                  Cordially
                  The Gadfly
                  SE~

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    theory

                    Hello George. Not so wild. I trust you have Chris Scott's magnificent book?

                    Cheers.
                    LC

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Hi George,

                      That's not even close to being a wild theory. It's a sensible speculation based on what we know (or rather don't) about the "lady" known as Mary Kelly.

                      Regards, Bridewell.
                      I won't always agree but I'll try not to be disagreeable.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Will the real Mary Kelly...

                        Not so wild. I trust you have Chris Scott's magnificent book?
                        I must endorse this...having bought it on Lynn's recommendation, it really is first rate George...

                        All the best

                        Dave

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Bridewell View Post
                          Hi Moonbegger.

                          It's certainly an idea that I've not come across before, so I'll give it some thought tomorrow when I'm less tired. The obvious difficulty would be that Mrs Elizabeth Long identified the woman outside 29, Hanbury Street as the same woman she saw in the mortuary, i.e. Annie Chapman. Chapman was 20 years older than MJK and she looked it. I'm sure you'll get some interesting feed-back.

                          Regards, Bridewell.
                          Hi Bridewell ..
                          Yes i guess that is a Fly in the ointment maybe the whole case does in fact rest on the shoulders of the witnesses , throughout Casebook and beyond, and which ones we deem as reliable or not ! which ones back up our theory's , and which ones put a severe dent in them .. especially when we put them together with times and places, ie ( mary being seen the morning after her alleged murder ) and also ( Cathy being murdered and mutilated in under ten minutes in Mitre sq ) just to mention a couple . And as much as i go along with general consensus that this is a bit out there on the bizarre side , if one witness statement is all the flack this old bird is gonna receive , i may just take her up again on another sortie [ Flight of the concord ]
                          ah yeah LC
                          ( local , unknown , local unknown , local ,unknown ) who knows ? maybe he was ? i never said anything to contrary . maybe you just didn't get the cut of my jib

                          moonbegger

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            practise

                            Hello MB. Funny, it never worked for me. Ah, well. (heh-heh)

                            Cheers.
                            LC

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Hello Moonbegger,

                              I am wondering why a woman would want to get involved in a string of such murders when there was such a high risk that she might become a victim?

                              I am inclined to beleive that the murderer was an unknown local (by unknown I mean unknown to us, not necessarily the locals and women who died) and he escaped detection because he knew the area well and he was sufficiently in control following each murder not to draw attention to himself.

                              The problem with the idea of a 'lookout' is that the murderer still had to complete the deed and escape, even if a 'lookout' warned him/her about an approaching person/plicemen etc.

                              Julie

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