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-   -   Was Annie Chapman a rotund woman? (http://forum.casebook.org/showthread.php?t=10439)

Robert St Devil 08-17-2017 07:31 PM

Was Annie Chapman a rotund woman?
 
Annie Chapman is typically portrayed as a woman with a big belly. And, there is the hint of a double chin in her morgue photo.

Was Kate Eddowes a thin woman? The answer is less speculative since we have that unfortunate photograph of her naked corpse to decide.

The question of this thread is, could these women's body types have been a significant factor in Jack the Ripper's decision to cut her abdomen into portions?

He wants her uterus. Does Annie Chapman's girth present a different set of complications?

I may be wrong on this next point-
in both cases, the murderer made a similar effort of avoiding the navel.

Sam Flynn 08-18-2017 01:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robert St Devil (Post 426101)
I may be wrong on this next point-
in both cases, the murderer made a similar effort of avoiding the navel.

On the contrary, your observation there may have more to it than the others. It's certainly true that the Ripper skirted around Eddowes' navel, because (a) Brown tells us so; and (b) we can see it for ourselves on the photographs. It's also true that "part of the belly wall, including the navel" was absent from the scene of Chapman's murder, which might suggest that her killer cut around the navel in her case also.

Well spotted.

drstrange169 08-18-2017 01:50 AM

According to ripper author (and surgeon), Wynne Weston Davies, that is something surgeons are trained to do.

Sam Flynn 08-18-2017 01:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by drstrange169 (Post 426109)
According to ripper author (and surgeon), Wynne Weston Davies, that is something surgeons are trained to do.

Or, presumably, something which could be read about in medical books.

To be clear, we don't actually know that the Ripper neatly skirted around Chapman's navel, only that a chunk of her belly containing the navel was missing from the scene. This isn't quite the same as "leaving the navel on a tongue of skin", which we get in Eddowes' case. Certainly, there's little else in the manner in which Chapman was dismantled that suggests that a trained hand was responsible; on the contrary, her abdomen was cut open like the crust of a meat pie.

Pierre 08-18-2017 05:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robert St Devil (Post 426101)
Annie Chapman is typically portrayed as a woman with a big belly. And, there is the hint of a double chin in her morgue photo.

Was Kate Eddowes a thin woman? The answer is less speculative since we have that unfortunate photograph of her naked corpse to decide.

The question of this thread is, could these women's body types have been a significant factor in Jack the Ripper's decision to cut her abdomen into portions?

He wants her uterus. Does Annie Chapman's girth present a different set of complications?

I may be wrong on this next point-
in both cases, the murderer made a similar effort of avoiding the navel.

No. I think Annie Chapman was small enough to become a suitable victim.

Pierre

DJA 08-18-2017 05:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pierre (Post 426130)
No. I think Annie Chapman was small enough to become a suitable victim.

Pierre

Mary Kelly?

Patrick S 08-18-2017 05:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pierre (Post 426130)
No. I think Annie Chapman was small enough to become a suitable victim.

Pierre

Do you propose that the killer had some physical requirements for his "suitable victims"?

Patrick S 08-18-2017 05:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJA (Post 426139)
Mary Kelly?

I remember seeing an analysis some time ago, based on the in-situ photo(s) of Kelly. If memory serves she wouldn't have been a waif.

DJA 08-18-2017 05:39 AM

5'7" tall.

Robert St Devil 08-18-2017 06:11 AM

it's not a profile in choice of victims pierre; for now, i'm settled on "prostitute" satisfying that matter.

with kate eddowes, his cuts form two flaps which he may have been able to pull back so that he could reach inside and take her uterus. she was a thin woman, so possibly that was all that was required.
with annie chapman, she may have had more belly fat that would need to be removed first, possibly cutting flaps wasn't enough or would have created difficulties when he tried to open them since there would have been more mass to contend with...


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