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Are grapes significant?

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  • Are grapes significant?

    Maybe all this is all circumstancial but here goes anyway.

    September 30, 1888 -- Elizabeth Stride and Catherine Eddowes killed at 1:00 and 1:45 am, respectively.

    October 2, 1888 -- Two private detectives, Grand and Batchelor, find a grape stalk in the drain near the spot where Elizabeth Stride's body was found.

    Now, the grape stalk is very much after the fact but if it was a lure for Liz (ie grapes were relatively expensive/a luxury in the east end), then this might tell her something about the economic status of her killer. And if it is relevant then why were there not grape stalks near the other victims?

  • #2
    Grape harvest was not finished at the time of Chapman's murder...

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    • #3
      Originally posted by Sasha View Post
      Now, the grape stalk is very much after the fact but if it was a lure for Liz (ie grapes were relatively expensive/a luxury in the east end), then this might tell her something about the economic status of her killer
      Do we know that grapes were relatively expensive? Matthew Packer was selling white grapes at sixpence per pound, and claims to have sold half a pound of them to the mystery-man. That's only threepence - less than the cost of a bed in a doss-house or a glass of beer. If there's any truth in the grape story (and that's a debate in itself), then Stride's alleged beau was hardly pushing the boat out.
      Kind regards, Sam Flynn

      "Suche Nullen" (Nietzsche, Götzendämmerung, 1888)

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      • #4
        There are several problems with this line of thought, Sasha:

        *Grapes were not a luxury item, as Sam has pointed out above.

        *It would not be particularly noteworthy if a grape stalk was found in a drain right next to a store that sold grapes... there would no doubt be grape stalks in various locations in the area that would have nothing to do with any murder.

        *Le Grand and Batchelor weren't particularly honest and law-abiding individuals. In fact that's a major understatement.

        Tom Wescott had an article in Ripper Notes #25 which goes into considerable detail on these and related topics ("Jack and the Grapestalk: The Berner Street Mystery Part 1").

        Dan Norder
        Ripper Notes: The International Journal for Ripper Studies
        Web site: www.RipperNotes.com - Email: dannorder@gmail.com

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        • #5
          According to the authopsy, there was also no sign of any grapes in her stomach.

          And as Dan points out, Le Grand and Bachelor were nothing but very ruthless con men, and their main motive was probably to cash in on the reward from the Whitechapel Vigilante Committee by approaching Matthew Packer.
          I haven't read Tom's article for some time, but I know it has been suggested that it was Le Grande and Bachelor who actually may have come up with the grape thing in the first place.

          All the best
          The Swedes are the Men that Will not Be Blamed for Nothing

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