where does the victims lie actually??

[bicho]

Hello I was interested to know where are the victims. In wich cementry?
can i visit them?
thanks for all the information.
has somebody gone to the Exhibition of Jack the Ripper in the Museum of Docklands in London??
is it good?

Thanks from barcelona.
Nieves

[ChrisGeorge]

Hello I was interested to know where are the victims. In wich cementry?
can i visit them?
thanks for all the information.
has somebody gone to the Exhibition of Jack the Ripper in the Museum of Docklands in London??
is it good?

Thanks from barcelona.
Nieves


Hello Nieves

Look at the Victims (http://www.casebook.org/victims/) section here at Casebook and it will provide you with information on the burial places of the victims as well as photographs of the grave markers.

Someone else can answer for you on the exhibition at the Museum of the Docklands, which I have not seen. There has been considerable discussion of the pros and cons of the exhibition here at "Casebook: Jack the Ripper." See

JTR Exhibition in Docklands (http://forum.casebook.org/showthread.php?t=298)

Just What Do People Expect From a Jack the Ripper Exhibition? (http://forum.casebook.org/showthread.php?t=742)

All the best

Chris

[Dan Norder]

Andy Spallek wrote an article for Ripper Notes that gave details on the how to locate the Ripper victims' burial locations. The text of that article (without the photos) is reproduced here on the Casebook:

"Finding the Victims' Graves" by Andrew J. Spallek (http://www.casebook.org/dissertations/rn_graves.html)

[aspallek]

^^^ I had posted some photos of the grave/memorial markers on the old boards but those are probably gone now. If there is a desire for them, I can post them again under each victim's thread. I do have photos of every victim's marker and of the general area where Ann Chapman lies. There is no marker for Ann.

Here is the rundown on where they are buried:

Nichols, Eddowes: City of London Cemetery
Stride: East London Cemetery
Kelly: St. Patrick's Roman Catholic Cemetery at Leytonstone.
Chapman: Manor Park Cemetery (unmarked)

The markers that exist mark approximate locations of the graves. Eddowes and Nicholls' markers are probably very approximate. I've heard that Kelly's is probably not too accurate either. Stride may be more accurate. The headstone is recent but the concrete surround appears to be at least many decades old, perhaps even a century or more.

Since the victims were buried in common graves, the areas of these graves has been re-used. You will find no other marked pre-1900 graves in these areas today, which is an indicator that the exact locations are unknown. I asked one cemetery employee what was done physically was a section was re-used for burial. She said they would just bring in more dirt and build up the area and then bury the new bodies bascially on top of the old.

Still, it is very meaningful for me to visit the victim's graves. It gives me the impression of being as "close" to the victims as I'll ever get.

[ChrisGeorge]

Many thanks for this information, Andy. Because the murder locations have mostly been rendered unrecognizable, except arguably for "Ripper's corner" in Mitre Square where Catherine Eddowes was killed, you are correct that the graves are the virtually the only way to get "close" to the victims these days, albeit as you say, the precise locations of their remains are unknown since they rest in common graves.

All the best

Chris

[BillyE]

I have youtube footage of the grave sites of four of the victims. If anyone is interested I'll post the URL here. Just let me know.

[George Hutchinson]

That's probably (?) mine.

I have YouTube clips I made of the burial sites of Polly Nichols, Annie Chapman, Liz Stride, Catherine Eddowes, Mary Kelly and - strangely - the Pinchin Street Torso. I also took loads of photos of the locations but they got lost (on-line, anyway) in the last crash.

They might be on my FLICKR account. If so, I'll try to put up a link for them.

PHILIP

[BillyE]

You're probably right, Philip. It most likely is you giving a tour of the victims grave sites. I am missing the Annie Chapman grave. I'll keep looking for that one. If you want to be sure I can either post the URL's here or send them to you in a pm. Let me know which you prefer, if any.

[George Hutchinson]

Hi Billy.

No need...

POLLY NICHOLS : http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=sO6DWmf7BZs

ANNIE CHAPMAN (anywhere in this area!) : http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=Px5HoUqMlok

LIS STRIDE : http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=vIcy9svnA-w

CATHERINE EDDOWES : http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=6gCBpa6NGTQ

MARY KELLY : http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=hyrN3q9WbK8

PINCHIN STREET TORSO : http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=_wNe2dPsdMg

PHILIP

[aspallek]

Thank, Philip, for those videos. They do convey much more of the surrounding area than do my still photos. Particularly interesting is your piece on the Pinchin Street torso. I knew this was buried in the East London Cemetery but I didn't know where. It is interesting because that is the only Ripper-era victim whose remains were intentionally preserved. They were preserved in spirits and soldered into a tin container as I recall.

While I don't think an organized tour of the grave sites would be in good taste, I might be persuaded to take one or two people if anyone wants to go while I am in London.

[BillyE]

You were right, Philip. They were your videos I have saved on my youtube favorites. Truely treasures to Ripperology, as your work tends to be. Thank you.

[George Hutchinson]

Fooled you as well, then, Billy.

It never ceases to amaze me that people think I actually contribute much! Clacky does more than I do. I'm just more vocal about it.

Thanks, Andy, also. I can't recall where I got the info on the location. I have a feeling you told me the plot number and I asked at the office where it was when I went. It's really only about a dozen steps from where Liz is buried, much like the distance between Polly and Catherine at the CoL.

PHILIP

[Sasha]

Hi Billy.

No need...

POLLY NICHOLS : http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=sO6DWmf7BZs

ANNIE CHAPMAN (anywhere in this area!) : http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=Px5HoUqMlok

LIS STRIDE : http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=vIcy9svnA-w

CATHERINE EDDOWES : http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=6gCBpa6NGTQ

MARY KELLY : http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=hyrN3q9WbK8

PINCHIN STREET TORSO : http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=_wNe2dPsdMg

PHILIP

Thanks Philip.

Couldn't quite make out Mary's headstone (other than her name). What's the inscription?

Thanks
Sasha

[George Hutchinson]

Hi Sasha

2321

What can I say? I am a star.

PHILIP

[Sasha]

Hi Sasha

2321

What can I say? I am a star.

PHILIP

Yes you are!

Thanks
Sasha

[Monty]

..with your women and yer fancy car..

Monty
:)

[anna]

Hi Philip,
Happened upon this thread last night,and thanks to your links and commentry to accompany them,I had a very enjoyable evening.:2thumbsup:
Then, I thought,let's see all the ghosty ghouly things that the Guildford ghost club can offer up,and watched music and my favourite of all....Mr Did's confession to the JTR crimes...he was here under our noses all the time!!!!!!
brilliant!..and plenty of ghostly things provided by others,which I loved trawling through.
So, well done that chap!!!! thought Mary's grave looked a bit rough though!
Hey,Andy!:hiya: how are you,long time since we spoke last.
If you get up a "graveyard crawl", so to speak,count me in!...cool.

[George Hutchinson]

Hi Anna. Just for clarity - there is no Guildford Ghost Club. GG is my ID on YouTube and it's just my own video clips (I can't see a paranormal group with masses of Sigur Rós and Duke Special concert clips...)

PHILIP

[aspallek]

Fooled you as well, then, Billy.

It never ceases to amaze me that people think I actually contribute much! Clacky does more than I do. I'm just more vocal about it.

Thanks, Andy, also. I can't recall where I got the info on the location. I have a feeling you told me the plot number and I asked at the office where it was when I went. It's really only about a dozen steps from where Liz is buried, much like the distance between Polly and Catherine at the CoL.

PHILIP

Philip,

A woman named Sheila at the East London Cemetery was very helpful in confirming the burial of an unidentified female that fits the description of the PST. I believe the plot number is given in a memo that can be found in the Sourcebook. Sheila also gave me info about come common graves were re-used. Nothing was removed, only dirt fill brought in so that new burials took place on top of old ones. The torso is still under there somewhere then, perhaps still preserved in spirits though I quite doubt it.

Interestingly, although press reports describe Coles' burial at the East London Cemetery, Sheila could not find record of it under "Coles" or any known aliases.

[Mike Covell]

I am quite a sad person. I subscribed to Philips channel on youtube a long time ago!

[anna]

Hi Philip.
Thanks for the clarity.I'm not really up on things like Utube I'm afraid,so tend to take things literally!!! I'm very interested in the subject of ghosts.
Thanks anyway for the enjoyable tour around all the sites etc.I loved the mortuary trip.You did very well to hold the camera still while climbing over things.Gave me a chill to see the actual tiles on the wall that would have been there in 1888!!Exciting stuff.
Kind Regards.
Anna.

[Bulldog]

Interestingly, although press reports describe Coles' burial at the East London Cemetery, Sheila could not find record of it under "Coles" or any known aliases.


Hi Andy,

I just came across this thread, hence the delayed reply.

Frances Coles was buried at the East London Cemetery on 25 Februray 1891. There is no doubt about that. It is almost certain that her correct name was used. That name, however, was often carelessly recorded as "Cole", a far more common surname, and the people at the cemetery might have made the same mistake. Some of the examples that I have encountered include:

The entire family in the 1861 census.

The 1881 census record of James, Frances's brother, when he was in the army.

The 1881 census record of Selina, Frances's sister, an inmate of the St. Olave's Union Workhouse.

Even her (Selina's) 1897 death certificate identifies her as Cole.

If the cemetery recorded her as "Cole" and someone made a computer search for the literal "Coles", she probably wouldn't show up in the search results.

Just a thought.

Bulldog

[aspallek]

Well I suppose it could be such a mistake, however I think my contact would have mentioned something if she came across a "Frances Cole" who was buried on the same day as the "Frances Coles" I asked her to check on. I suspect perhaps the cemetery records may be incomplete or otherwise somehow flawed.

[WARSPITE]

Hi Andy,
Many thanks for the grave locations. Ive never visited them myself,apart from MKs 20yrs ago. Im very interested in visiting them. Perhaps you can let me know when you next go, love to tag along.
WARSPITE (DRWHITBY@AOL.COM)