Getting Fingerprints

[diana]

I read this morning that a new technology has come along which allows fingerprints to be lifted from metal surfaces, even when they have been wiped off, and I presume even after 120 years.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/06/080602103331.htm

This opens some interesting possibilities. The first problem is, what metal objects are still around that Jack might have handled?

Assuming that this problem is solved I am sure that somebody will say, well, so what? You have no database and no suspects to compare the prints to.

First of all it would be interesting just to look at Jack's prints. The way in which he grasped an object at one of the crime scenes might provide a valuable clue.

Secondly, if you find half the pieces to a puzzle, do you throw them away, or do you keep them, hoping that the other pieces will turn up?

Suppose you could match crime scene prints with prints on a teaspoon found in Druitts house, or on Kosminski's manacles from Colney Hatch, or on a tin cup belonging to Barnett?

[Monty]

Diana,

This opens some interesting possibilities. The first problem is, what metal objects are still around that Jack might have handled?

The only objects Jack may have handled, that the rest of us could have access to, would be items at the murder scenes.

And seeing as not one scene is now as it was then, the chances are zero.

Monty

[ChrisGeorge]

I read this morning that a new technology has come along which allows fingerprints to be lifted from metal surfaces, even when they have been wiped off, and I presume even after 120 years.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/06/080602103331.htm

This opens some interesting possibilities. The first problem is, what metal objects are still around that Jack might have handled?

Mmmmmm. What about the broken "Jack the Ripper knife" that Don Rumbelow owns and that is currently on display in the Docklands exhibition. Of course if Jack's fingerprints are on there they are likely among the myriad other prints, including Don's, the elderly lady who owned the knife before it came into Don's possession, and the lady's gardener who used the knife as a weed-wacker and who broke the blade.

Chris

[Christine]

What happened to the coins and various trinkets that were found by some of the bodies? Were any of them preserved, or buried with a victim?

Strange as it sounds, I'd guess that the victims themselves are the most likely more or less uncontaminated source of Jack's biological footprint. At least with current technology, I doubt there's much that could be found.

[ChrisGeorge]

What happened to the coins and various trinkets that were found by some of the bodies? Were any of them preserved, or buried with a victim?

Strange as it sounds, I'd guess that the victims themselves are the most likely more or less uncontaminated source of Jack's biological footprint. At least with current technology, I doubt there's much that could be found.

Sorry, Christine, no such possessions from the victims are known still to exist, except for the alleged "shawl" of Catherine Eddowes about which some questions have been raised. See Andrew L. Morrison's dissertation, "Shrouded in Mystery: Stephen White, Amos Simpson and 'Catharine Eddowes' Shawl'" here at Casebook: Jack the Ripper.

Chris

[Karmi-Sempai]

In 1880, Dr. Henry Faulds suggested the idea of fingerprinting to the Metropolitan Police but he was dismissed. Too bad. They might've gotten something off Jack. Who knows? But since we can only get fingerprints that're at most a 120 years old, I somewhat doubt that we can get something off the murder weapons if they're still around.

[Mitch Rowe]

The Slides..

I think our best bet at gathering new evidence is to try and locate the slides that were made of the lusk kidney. I presume this was done at London Hospital and if no one has ever tried locating them there may be a slight chance they were preserved???
If so then it may be possible to match DNA to Eddowes descendants. It seems like a loooooong shot but if we knew that the lusk letter was real we would make a big step. towards identifying the Ripper.

[Karmi-Sempai]

The Kidney

Yeah, if only someone were able to positively identify it.

[Mitch Rowe]

Yeah, if only someone were able to positively identify it.

If the slides were found. And the DNA was matched to Eddowes then we would at least have a glimpse into JTRs mind through the From Hell letter. If Police had saved all the evidence they could and would have taken proper care of such there is no telling what could be done with it today. Anything from nothing worthwhile to JTRs DNA and fingerprints.

Hmm? Just thought of something. I wonder if anyone has done a study to find out if its possible to have certain patterns in ones fingerprints that can be traced through family lines?

[j.r-ahde]

Hello you all!

Yes, Karmi-Sempai, unfortunately that's the fate of the forerunners... too much ahead of their own time!

120 years later?!

1. As most of here have already said; where to look for Jack?

2. The kidney thing might be solved...

3. The real origins of Mary Jane Kelly could be solved too! All they have to do, is to pick all the Welsh, Limerick-Irish and London Mary Jane Kellies relatives DNA...

All the best
Jukka

[ChrisGeorge]

I think our best bet at gathering new evidence is to try and locate the slides that were made of the lusk kidney. I presume this was done at London Hospital and if no one has ever tried locating them there may be a slight chance they were preserved???
If so then it may be possible to match DNA to Eddowes descendants. It seems like a loooooong shot but if we knew that the lusk letter was real we would make a big step. towards identifying the Ripper.

On the old Casebook boards, a Dr. Thomas Ind, a specialist working in the London area said he enquired without success about the existence of a section of the kidney mounted on a slide might still exist. I am reposting a message I posted back on these forums back in November 2003:

The fact is that we don't know how long the Lusk kidney was kept or if it was kept for any length of time. Dr. Thomas Ind, a London area specialist who has contributed to these boards, has done some investigation at the Royal London Hospital, Whitechapel, where Dr. Thomas Horrocks Openshaw examined the kidney, and his feeling is that if anything of the kidney was kept it would have been only a section of the kidney on a glass slide. Dr. Ind's feeling was that such a slide of the kidney might have been kept, but there is no guarantee that was the case. One of the latest e-mails I had from him was to say that a lot of anatomic specimens have been disposed of in the United Kingdom in the wake of the recent Alder Hey Hospital (Liverpool) organs scandal, and so it is possible that if the section of kidney still existed it could even have been disposed of then, relatively recently. But the fact is, we just don't know. It is just as likely, it seems to me, that the remainder of the kidney was thrown away soon after it was examined by Dr. Openshaw. You are quite correct that the Lusk kidney, the piece of Eddowes's apron, and Dr. D'Onston's famous ties should be examined for DNA if those items still exist, but at this point in time their existence in this world seems a very long shot.

Best regards

Chris George

[Mitch Rowe]

The kidney itself I havent much hope for. I would expect if it was preserved in a jar. Something like that would be thrown away or would have been rediscovered by now. But the slides are another matter. Ive seen on TV a few cases that were 20-40 years old and slides were found in Hospitals amongst rows and rows of boxes filled with slides. It was like the Hospital never disposed of any slides.

There is also good reason to never dispose of slides. Imagine a rare disease that hasnt showed itself for many many years. I believe there anre types of influenza like that. Now the Doctor if able to determine that this disease had appeared before, say some 50 to 100 years by examining old slides then that could help in treating such a disease.

Now if London Hospitals staff would have ever considered something like that then I think they would be reluctant to throw out any slides. They dont take up that much room.

Its possible the slides were mis labeled also. I dont know much about London Hospital but if they have rooms filled with boxes upon boxes of old slides then its possible the slides still exist.