The GSG. What Does It Mean??

[Mitch Rowe]

I would be interested to know what others theories may be concerning the GSG and what it means assuming that JTR wrote it.

Right now I have four running theories about it. Ill list them in the order I feel most likely.

1: JTR was a Jew who has for some reason been rejected by his Jewish community. Could be some form of trauma he experienced as a child.

2: JTR was not a Jew and attemps to blame the Jews miserably.

3: The message was meant for Schwartz.

4: JTR was not responsible for all of the murders. He believes the person who is reponsible for the murders he did not commit, was a Jew.

They all open up the remote possibility that Strides murder was intended to point to a member of the IWEC.

Of course this is all assuming JTR wrote the GSG wich doesnt seem likely.

So.... Anyone else have a pet theory?

[Mike Covell]

Thomas Toughill in his recently released "The Ripper Code" has a theory that the "GSG" was a code written by either Oscar Wilde or George Francis "Frank" Miles. I stopped reading after a while!!!

In John Wilding's "JTR Revealed and Revisited" he had the theory that it was a hidden code written by J.K. Stephen.

There is also a dissertation on the boards which was written by Robert D'Onston Stephenson, giving his views on the "GSG".

[Tom_Wescott]

A study of the different eyewitness renditions of the graffiti reveals that no one could agree on the second word of the sentence, more commonly rendered today as 'Juwes'. I believe this might be because they were trying to make a word appear where there wasn't one. It's my contention that the the graffiti read 'The IWMES are the men...' The sign outside the Berner Street club read INTERNATIONAL WORKING MEN'S EDUCATIONAL SOCIETY. If you write IWMES in cursif it looks pretty much like 'JUWES'. The Ripper utilized Eddowes' apron piece and the message to make sure there was no doubt that he was responsible for the unmutilated Stride. Just as Zodiac used pieces of a victims' shirt to leave no doubt he was the letter writer. It's a very simple explanation that answers all the questions and I believe would have been decided at in 1888 had Warren not made the absolutely wrong decision of erasing the writing before it could be photographed.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[perrymason]

Before offering my own spin on the above message, I owe a great deal of my thinking to information that Tom shared with me on the ages of The Berner Club gang...the general overview of the club as an anarchist haven, and the significance of Goulston Street to local immigrant Jews in particular. I may not see the message the same way, but I do think Tom and I share some core beliefs about The International Club. Fair Tom?

I think the writing was put there when the apron was, over an hour after Kate was killed, and it was from the killer of Kate. I believe he caught wind on his return to his home in the East End that supposedly "The Ripper" had killed a woman 50 minutes or so before the Mitre Square murder, in Dutfields Yard, off Berner...private property of Jewish Socialists who often held meetings and speeches regarding those principles, often followed by smoking and discussion by men of "low character" in that same yard.

I think the man who killed Kate was alerting the general public that the first murder was not done by him, but rather the "Juwes" from the club. I think it is written as if annoyed, sarcastically....."(So) The Juwes are the men that will not be blamed for nothing"....

I think it was written by a semi literate gentile.

Best regards.

[Tom_Wescott]

The killer of Kate Eddowes would have had absolutely no clue about the Stride murder unless he was himself the murderer. Even if he somehow did hear about Stride's murder sometime during the 45 minutes after Eddowes was found and the apron was placed, he would not have had all the details as to WHERE it was found and what kind of men inhabited the place. I'd say that if I'm right about it reading IWMES - which makes far more sense than JUWES - then there can only be one meaning attributed to the writing, and that is they aren't to be blamed for the murder.

But since it's a probability that Liz Stride was a Ripper victim, the debate is rather moot.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[Gatsby]

A study of the different eyewitness renditions of the graffiti reveals that no one could agree on the second word of the sentence, more commonly rendered today as 'Juwes'. I believe this might be because they were trying to make a word appear where there wasn't one. It's my contention that the the graffiti read 'The IWMES are the men...' The sign outside the Berner Street club read INTERNATIONAL WORKING MEN'S EDUCATIONAL SOCIETY. If you write IWMES in cursif it looks pretty much like 'JUWES'. The Ripper utilized Eddowes' apron piece and the message to make sure there was no doubt that he was responsible for the unmutilated Stride. Just as Zodiac used pieces of a victims' shirt to leave no doubt he was the letter writer. It's a very simple explanation that answers all the questions and I believe would have been decided at in 1888 had Warren not made the absolutely wrong decision of erasing the writing before it could be photographed.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

Hi Tom,

I agree with you that it is highly probable that the word that we know today as "Juwes" was likely IWMES, and I feel that the confusion about it, then and now, lends credence to the idea that the men that saw the message were merely guessing because they couldn't make it out.

Where I don't agree with you entirely is that I find it unlikely that JTR wrote the message. It was more likely written by someone who had dealings with the IWMES at some point in the day (or days) prior to the murder, and left the message as a taunt or proclamation.

The piece of apron was definitely left by JTR, but whether it was intentional or not will never be known. What makes the circumstances different from Zodiac, is that JTR didn't write a letter (or graffiti) saying "see that apron? I left that for you to find." In other words, he may have just dropped it.

[Tom_Wescott]

I'm glad to see my theory getting some support. I believe it makes sense that the graffiti read IWMES, but if that's the case, the only true conclusion one can reach is that the Ripper himself wrote it to make sure Stride's murder was attributed to him.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[Fisherman]

Tom!

The IWMES stuff again, no less! Interesting and congenial though it may seem, I fail to recognize the possibility that IWMES could be interpreted JUWES.
...but surely this is something you must have tested thoroughly? Can you contribute any sample of how you think the word may have loked on that wall?
The wording was written in a "round schoolboy hand", which rather makes me think that it would have been quite clear and not sloppy, so there is no much room for any excesses, I believe.

Moreover, if the killer was truly intent on making it quite clear that he was the killer, then why did he not write it in full: The international mens working society are the men that will not be blamed for nothing". Not much more job, is it? Or did he sense he was running out of chalk?

The best,
Fisherman

[Tom_Wescott]

The IWMES stuff again, no less! Interesting and congenial though it may seem, I fail to recognize the possibility that IWMES could be interpreted JUWES.

More reason to believe I'm on the right track.

...but surely this is something you must have tested thoroughly? Can you contribute any sample of how you think the word may have loked on that wall?

Yes I did, and you're welcome to try the same.

The wording was written in a "round schoolboy hand", which rather makes me think that it would have been quite clear and not sloppy, so there is no much room for any excesses, I believe.

That's my point. The writing was relatively clear, enough so that everyone who saw it could make out the sentence. The problem is, no two people saw THE SECOND WORD the same. That's the fact that opened my mind to outside possibilities.

A capital I looks the same as a capital J
A U followed by a W is a series of humps, like a rollercoaster, very similar to a W and M.
Both end in ES

The mind is looking to make a word out of it and IWMES is not a word, so it sees JUWES/JEWES/JUIVES/JUEWES, which is also not a word but fits a sensible vowel/consonant construction.

The difference is, the man who held that torn apron had murdered a woman at the IWMES an hour before. It existed and was directly related to actions he'd taken that night. It means something, JUWES, which has no mean, does not.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[paul emmett]

Hi Tom,

Where I don't agree with you entirely is that I find it unlikely that JTR wrote the message. It was more likely written by someone who had dealings with the IWMES at some point in the day (or days) prior to the murder, and left the message as a taunt or proclamation.

Hello, Gatsy, All.

I'm on the other side. I'm not sure about IWMES, but if it is IWMES, then it must be JTR writing by the apron. There's too much coincidence for it not to be Jack, finishing his Jewish pattern for the night, and taking credit for Stride.

[Tom_Wescott]

Paul,

I agree. I can't be certain it read IWMES, but if it did, it had to be Jack.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[perrymason]

The killer of Kate Eddowes would have had absolutely no clue about the Stride murder unless he was himself the murderer. Even if he somehow did hear about Stride's murder sometime during the 45 minutes after Eddowes was found and the apron was placed, he would not have had all the details as to WHERE it was found and what kind of men inhabited the place. I'd say that if I'm right about it reading IWMES - which makes far more sense than JUWES - then there can only be one meaning attributed to the writing, and that is they aren't to be blamed for the murder.

But since it's a probability that Liz Stride was a Ripper victim, the debate is rather moot.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

Tom,

Since Kate is found around 1:44, and the apron and writing are discovered at nearly 3am, its possibly at least an hour between kill and apron drop. If he kills in the city, and lives in the East End, for all we know on Berner Street or Batty Street, he may well have walked past the very site travelling home. But stopping somewhere to leave a message still having a pocket or apron piece stuffed with organs might not be so smart.

The members of the club were said to have yelled when seeking help...."another woman" has been murdered. Thats "Blame". Without any reason for it at that point either. They clearly sought to distance the club from any perceived connection with the murder....on their private property.

We therefore have evidence that The Jews "Blamed" Jack the Ripper from the outset, and we have physical evidence of only the second killing that night right near a message that refers to Jews and "not being Blamed".

Your idea of the clubs initials is a good one, but I think unnecessarily contrived. This need not be a code.

Best regards.

[Marlowe]

The Descendants of Cain.

Marlowe

[Ally]

Yeah because saying "the IWMES are the men who will not be blamed for nothing" is a simpler and more concise way of taking credit for the double event than saying "They both were mine" or "I got two tonight". Yeah utilizing some vague initials and then writing them so that no one can read them properly. Ayup.

[Fisherman]

Tom Wescott writes:

"Yes I did, and you're welcome to try the same"

So letīs see it then!

"The writing was relatively clear, enough so that everyone who saw it could make out the sentence. The problem is, no two people saw THE SECOND WORD the same."

Good thinking. But why did the writer settle for a construction that no two people read alike? Why, like I asked before, did he not simply write the whole thing??

"The difference is, the man who held that torn apron had murdered a woman at the IWMES an hour before."

Nope. But thatīs for another thread.

The bit about the lettering IWMES being something that the different parts tried to interpret as a word instead of an abbreviation is makes good sense; if there was indeed an abbreviation hidden in the wording, it would be at peril to be overlooked just as you say.
But that would have been obvious to the writer too. Spelling it all out, or using capital letters would have clinched it. That was not done, however, which is why I am inclined to say thanks, but no thanks... no matter if that in itself means that you feel you are on the right track.

The best,
Fisherman

PS. You beat me to it, Ally - I think that is spot on!