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JTRSickert
02-15-2011, 11:29 AM
Hi everyone.

I recently came across something you all may find interesting. In May, there is a new JTR book coming out that is specifically aimed at trying to prove that Kosminski was the killer. It's the first book (except for maybe Martin Fido's book, but that one focused more on David Cohen) that deals specifically with Kosminski. Besides going over the Ripper crimes, it also gives us a portrait of the life of this rather well-known suspect. It even has a foreword by Roy Hazelwood, a former FBI profiler who was one of the two men who came up with the psychological profile of JTR and was even on the 100-year anniversary documentary of the case, and said Kosminski was the most likely suspect, according to their profile. So, while I personally am not 100% convinced that Aaron was responsible, I am looking forward to when this book comes out and will be anxious to read it. It's called "Jack the Ripper, and the Case for Scotland Yard's Prime Suspect" by Robert House. For more information, here is the link on the Amazon page:


http://www.amazon.com/Ripper-Scotland-Yards-Prime-Suspect/dp/0470938994/ref=sr_1_2?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1297768838&sr=1-2

mariab
02-15-2011, 06:39 PM
Yes, this is a known fact since several months. It's the book by Rob House. (And I'm personally looking forward to reading it, as it contains some serious research, apparently.)

c.d.
02-15-2011, 07:34 PM
I just find it hard to believe that the police would have said "We think this is the guy. Let's put him in an asylum and go get a pint." Doesn't it seem more reasonable that they would have attempted to question him thoroughly and repeatedly. You would think that he would have said something that would have given them a strong belief that he was the Ripper or that they would have come away with the feeling that the guy was completely nuts and there would be no way he could have had it together enough to pull off the murders.

Even if he were pretty much incoherent, you would think they could get some sort of response by mentioning the murders.

c.d.

Stephen Thomas
02-15-2011, 07:56 PM
This should be, and I'm sure it will be, a terrific book. Rob knows absolutely all the arguments for and against Kosminski's candidacy and this will be the work of a scholar and not some hack chancer.

jason_c
02-15-2011, 08:12 PM
Im looking forward to reading this.

mariab
02-15-2011, 08:20 PM
Hi C.D.,
Unless Rob House has found new evidence pertaining to the early police investigation, to the details on Kozminski's incarceration in the spring of 1889, and to the unnamed witness who supposedly could have indentified a Jewish suspect, it appears that the allegations against Kozminski as a suspect came at a later point, from 1891 on, via “pen pushers“ Macnaghten, Anderson, and Swanson, and not during the active investigation in 1888/1889. Thus the police most certainly didn't say "We think this is the guy. Let's put him in an asylum and go get a pint.", to quote you. The most important pieces of evidence would be to research the conditions pertaining to Kozminksi's incarceration (was the police suspecting him in relation to the Whitechapel murders?) and to identify the witness who allegedly was about to name the suspect, but no charges were pressed due to the witness's reluctance to testify against "a fellow Jew." Was the witness in question Lawende, Levy, or Schwartz? (The latter being pretty improbable).
And please don't forget that there were other, clearly more legitimate contemporary suspects besides Kozminski. Tumblety remains one of them, Le Grand was suspected and allegedly followed by the SY until he was arrested for other crimes, and Ostrog was most probably a mixup with Le Grand (as a “French suspect known for his carrying knifes and assaulting unfortunates“). Accessibility to the Special Branch ledgers would possibly help clarify things – unless it makes things even more complicated, through inconclusive or ill-defined data, which is a possibility!
I'm open to change my mind in case of new evidence in Rob House's book, but my opinion at this point is that Kozminski was a mixup for some other Jew.
By the by, I assume that all are familiar with Rob House's dissertation Aaron Kozminski reconsidered?
posted here: http://www.casebook.org/dissertations/robhouse-kosminski.html

c.d.
02-15-2011, 08:37 PM
Hi Maria,

My post was written in haste and not worded very well. What I meant to suggest was that if he were a strong suspect at a later date, it seems quite strange that we have so little information with regard to him. Did the police make any attempt to question him? If so, we have no record of it. That is the point that I was so clumsily attempting to make.

c.d.

mariab
02-15-2011, 08:51 PM
I figured out what you meant, C.D., and I totally feel you. ;-) I guess it all boils down to the lack of evidence/police sources having survived, such as the contemporary police files/reports, for which there are very scarce chances that they'd turn up again – unless people have accumulated them in their private possession over the years and one day decide to return them. (While let me please disclaim that I'm in any way whatsoever trying to initiate another discussion of “lost documents“, LOL.) The Special Branch ledgers might end up helping too, since there are allegedly 2 Ripper suspects mentioned there (along “Mc Grath“ as a person of interest). Pertaining to new sources on Kozminski, I assume that Rob House and Chris Philips are best informed about this.

c.d.
02-15-2011, 08:59 PM
Hi Maria,

I think we are guilty of hijacking this thread. I guess we should wait for the book to come out.

Speaking of hijacking, where is Sam Flynn these days?

c.d.

mariab
02-15-2011, 09:09 PM
C.D., I was highjacking it on purpose (for once!), in the hope that Rob House joins later on and hopefully gives us some incentive about eventual new data discussed in his book.
Sam Flynn (Gareth Williams) frequently takes time off. I'm sure he'll be back.

Tom_Wescott
02-15-2011, 09:14 PM
Rob knows absolutely all the arguments for and against Kosminski's candidacy and this will be the work of a scholar and not some hack chancer.

I completely agree and just pre-ordered my copy. Thanks for the heads up, JTRSickert. I've been waiting for this one. I'm proud of and excited for Rob in having completed the monumental task of writing a book and seeing it published. I'm equally excited for Ripperology that we will soon benefit from Rob's years of toil in following Kosminski around Whitechapel. While I feel Le Grand is the best suspect to date, I place Kosminski in 2nd place, so for me that's a pretty high ranking. I couldn't even tell you who my 3rd place would be right now. I greatly look forward to the inevitable success of this book, and the equally inevitable debate to follow its publication.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

P.S. And what a great cover!

Fisherman
02-15-2011, 09:43 PM
And with a foreword by Roy Hazelwood - that would equate what Sam used to call psycho-mumble, methinks...

Still, a must!

The best,
Fisherman

mariab
02-15-2011, 10:17 PM
I assume that Roy Hazelwood refers to the renowned profiler. Hmmm:scratchchin:... I don't wish to appear negative or in any way disrespectful to Rob House (whom I admire and very much respect as a serious, informed researcher), but I do hope that the book will concentrate more on “following Kozminski around Whitechapel“ (to quote a former post in this thread) and less on “the psychological profile of a sexual killer“, to quote Mr. House's dissertation, Aaron Kozminski reconsidered?
(posted here:http://www.casebook.org/dissertations/robhouse-kosminski.html).
As pertinent as the psychopathological/geographical criteria established for Kozminski appear to be (as described in Mr. House's dissertation), they would have been common ground, shared in a pretty generic fashion with the poverty striken population of Victorian Whitechapel, both Jewish and gentile. For instance, also Barnett fits similar psychological criteria, as Bruce Paley has established. (Although it's true that Barnett was never considered as a suspect historically.)
Unless significant evidence turns up about the police investigation prior to Kozminsky's incarceration (perhaps Rob House has found such evidence?), I'll refrain from considering Kozminsky as the second possibly viable suspect. Tumblety still ranks higher than Kozminsky as a (contemporary) suspect for me. While this is not equal to my viewing Kozminsky as such an obvious error as Druitt, this goes without saying.

Tom_Wescott
02-15-2011, 10:44 PM
I will admit the Hazelwood foreword gave me pause, since I'm not supportive of serial killer profiling as a rule - it certainly in no way constitutes evidence in an old case like this - but Hazelwood is well-known and respected OUTSIDE the Ripper community, so he's not a bad choice for a first-time author.

Let me add that when I say 'Kosminski' is my 2nd fave suspect, I'm referring to the suspect referenced by Swanson and Macnaghten, who may have been Aaron Kosminski and/or David Cohen. I personally view the Macnaghten Memoranda as lending credence to the Kosminski theory by virtue of the fact that Koz was apparently the only suspect included as a result of the weight of evidence against him and IN SPITE of the fact that he stood in direct contrast to Macnaghten's highly flawed personal biases.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

mariab
02-15-2011, 10:57 PM
I agree that a prologue by Roy Hazelwood might help attract readers, especially from the uninitiated pool of the general public, who, pertaining to JTR, might have only read Cornwell, of all things!

Quote Tom Wescott:
I'm referring to the suspect referenced by Swanson and Macnaghten, who may have been Aaron Kosminski and/or David Cohen.
I'm curious if anyone still takes Kamynski/the Fido theory into consideration nowadays? I've heard that there are inacurracies in the research pertaining to this theory.

Quote Tom Wescott_
I personally view the Macnaghten Memoranda as lending credence to the Kosminski theory by virtue of the fact that Koz was apparently the only suspect included as a result of the weight of evidence against him
He he, in my reading of the Macnaghten Memoranda, there is another suspect included in the MM as a result of concrete evidence against him. That suspect is Le Grand – named as “Ostrog“ in the Macnaghten Memoranda!

Phil Carter
02-15-2011, 11:01 PM
Hello all,

I actually set up a thread for this book on November the 14th, here..

http://forum.casebook.org/showthread.php?t=5175

best wishes

Phil

Tom_Wescott
02-15-2011, 11:05 PM
I'm curious if anyone still takes Kamynski/the Fido theory into consideration nowadays? I've heard that there are inacurracies in the research pertaining to this theory.

I really don't know, that's one of the reasons I'm looking forward to this book.

He he, in my reading of the Macnaghten Memoranda, there is another suspect included in the MM as a result of concrete evidence against him. That suspect is Le Grand – named as “Ostrog“ in the Macnaghten Memoranda.

You're being cute, as it's not fair to say Le Grand was 'included' when he was not. However, it seems likely that Ostrog (who was not a suspect) was only included because he was confused (by Macnaghten or someone else) for Le Grand. Le Grand, and not Ostrog, fits the descriptions given. Had even one iota of research or investigation gone into the Memoranda, the memoranda would either cease to exist or would be a completely different read from what it now is.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

mariab
02-15-2011, 11:23 PM
You're being cute, as it's not fair to say Le Grand was 'included' when he was not. However, it seems likely that Ostrog (who was not a suspect) was only included because he was confused (by Macnaghten or someone else) for Le Grand. Le Grand, and not Ostrog, fits the descriptions given.
That's precisely what I'm saying, i.e., the underlined part from your quote is the same as what I've posted. Ostrog was possibly mixed for Le Grand, due to the fact that they both had engaged in criminal activity in Paris. Next month I'm going to research the criminal records in Paris for any evidence having (possibly) survived for both Ostrog and Le Grand, even if it doesn't appear that Le Grand was ever arrested in Paris, like Ostrog.
And I'm not trying to be “cute“, it's just a theory I have. Actually, hardly a new theory, since it's completely transparent that Ostrog's criminal description in the MM fits Le Grand. Thus Le Grand was unknowingly included in the MM.

Had even one iota of research or investigation gone into the Memoranda, the memoranda would either cease to exist or would be a completely different read from what it now is.
Precisely, and this is an additional reason why many Ripperologists have serious doubts about Kozminski. On the other side, I (personally) can see where from the evidence on Ostrog as a “suspect“ is coming, thus I'm willing to consider Kozminski as another mixup, as long as someone (Rob House) conducts the necessary research.

PS.: I see Rob House currently perusing this thread. ;-) I hope he responds!
(Yes, I'm completely pathetic in netiquette...)

Jeff Leahy
02-15-2015, 04:04 AM
http://www.amazon.com/Ripper-Scotlan...7768838&sr=1-2

Jack the Ripper and the Case for Scotland Yards Prime Suspect, $14.10

Give some recent comments I thought I better actually get around to reading this book.. Then had a little difficulty finding it on Amazon…probably because its on the American Amazon (Obviously) but found this link and made a successful order.

Came to the UK at just over £17 with the shipping, so looking forward to its arrival especially as I'm now well into editing a new project on the subject, It should prove useful, Robs always precise and carful with his facts and research.

Yours Jeff

Jeff Leahy
03-03-2015, 02:28 AM
Well my book finally arrived and I have been trying to catch a few early morning grabs before work..

Firstly I;d like to thank Rob personally for his acknowledgement which I was unaware of and will obviously reciprocate in any future production.

There was one thing that struck out to me on Page 33.

Rob gives several revelations I had not noticed before. I was wondering what was meant by the description of the Kosminski Brothers as 'Petty Bourgeois' as to me this sounds like greater affluence than I had previously supposed while living in Poland.

Also it appears that if Aaron did start working at ten his original occupation is given as Taylor?

And that his Mothers fathers occupation was given as 'Butcher'

I wonder if anybody else had commented on this before?

Many thanks Rob

Yours Jeff

Jeff Leahy
03-14-2015, 06:42 AM
Finally reached the end.. and just say what a well researched and considered book it is..

While Rob House concludes Aaron Kosminski as the most probable suspect, he recognises 'beyond reasonable proof' is always going to be impossible to prove in 2015..

That said more information appears to surface all the time. I presume that Rob was unaware that Woolfe Kozminski was living in Provenance Street at the time of the murders and interestingly appears to have moved to Yalford Street in March 1889..

In fact all roads appear to lead to March 1889..

Cox and Sagar stop survey lance, Abberline is sent back to head quarters.. and the case is generally put on low alert

A great book, everyone should read it. I particularly found Rob's research on Lust killers interesting, his comment on Sutcliffe, and his final picture of a Schizophrenic serial killer with underlying sociopathic cluster B personality disorders, as something I have also given a lot of thought to over the last year.

Hopefully it at least quashes the argument that Aarons known medical notes from February 1891 discount him being a lust serial killer in !888. Actually the exact opposite which makes Andersons comments all the more compelling.

Cheers Rob

Yours Jeff

Hunter
03-14-2015, 07:29 AM
In fact all roads appear to lead to March 1889..

Cox and Sagar stop survey lance, Abberline is sent back to head quarters.. and the case is generally put on low alert


And put back on high alert in July, '89.

I'm a little surprised that you if all people are just now reading Rob's book.

Jeff Leahy
03-14-2015, 07:54 AM
And put back on high alert in July, '89.

I'm a little surprised that you if all people are just now reading Rob's book.

Hi Hunter

I started work on a new project. And the claim was laid at my door that my new theory had been covered in Robs book. So it seemed a good idea to double check I wasn't inadvertently putting forward an idea already expressed.

And as always you end up considering some new ideas.

I thought Robs observations about Anderson's earliest claims only a year (14months) after Kosminski went into a Public Asylum in Feb 1891, extremely interesting.

While Rob does indeed touch on the idea that Cox and Sagar are talking about a serveylance following the murder of MJK, and prints the Dublin Express article 12th Dec that police were investigating private lunatic asylums..

He never takes that to the ultimate conclusion that Aaron entered a Private Asylum in Surrey MArch 1889 (AS claimed by MacAnughten) explaining why the murders stopped until July 1889. i.e. Aaron enter two separate asylums on two separate occasions.

While I appreciate Rob has done brilliant work in the area hopefully it is one that there is still room to expand upon

Many thanks

Yours Jeff