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The implications of the Double Event on Ripper victimology

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  • The implications of the Double Event on Ripper victimology

    Hello, all.

    A thought struck me like a bolt from the blue (or a knife from the black) as I was on my way home this afternoon. It regards speculation I've read that the Ripper may somehow have known his victims, either socially or 'professionally', and could therefore have targeted them, for whatever reason, because of it.

    The basic theory is this: that the Ripper either knew or knew of each of his victims; that he targeted them, and them alone; that his work was finished after he killed these particular women, and his murders ceased. Whether he be a local client enraged at having contracted a sexually-transmitted disease from one of them or a royal physician covering a deeper conspiracy, this idea has floated around in some form or fashion in numerous, unrelated Ripper theories.

    The more I dwell on the Double Event, the less likely I think this is. Assuming that both Stride and Eddowes were Ripper victims - a proposition I admit has been challenged in recent years but which I nevertheless feel comfortable in saying is the consensus stance among Ripperologists - it is a theory exploded almost before it has been established in the first. And the reason for it is essentially the same as that offered by those who discount Elizabeth Stride as a victim altogether.

    It's well known that Jack the Ripper was hard-pressed on the night of September 30th, 1888. After polishing off Elizabeth Stride in Berner Street, he'd have had to take a fifteen minute trip into Mitre Square to hunt for his second victim of the night, Catherine Eddowes, and done so in a way that wouldn't have attracted attention from anyone out enjoying Whitechapel's nightlife.

    I have no problem with this idea; as of now I am not convinced by the notion that Stride was killed by an unknown assailant. However, this sequence of events does call into question any theory which posits a direct and intimate link between the Whitechapel murderer and his victims. The East End is a big place, and the prostitutes there at the time were quite renowned for not sticking to any one particular place within it for fear of the constabulary. If the Ripper had premeditated his murders with the intent of killing Stride and Eddowes in particular, he ought to have considered sticking to his usual spacing between them; for while he was busy with Stride, he would have had no way of knowing that Eddowes would have been anywhere near the vicinity of Mitre Square. If Jack the Ripper were hunting these two women of all the prostitutes in Whitechapel, he was remarkably lucky to have found them both on the same night at all.

    This is especially true when one considers that Eddowes had just left the Bishopgate police station, ostensibly to return home. If I may be permitted to enter the realm of fantasy for a moment, let us say that not only did the Ripper know Eddowes, but he had arranged to meet her in Mitre Square before her arrest in Aldgate High Street. Even assuming this were the case, Jack ran a great risk that the woman, at the least hung over from a night of heavy drinking and wanting to put as much distance between her cell and herself as possible, would have simply gone home to James Kelly. It makes no sense to me.
    Last edited by Defective Detective; 11-03-2010, 09:53 PM. Reason: Clarified the title

  • #2
    Excellent reasoning in my view, DD.

    To me, the only reason for supposing that Jack targeted specific women is the fact that Eddowes called herself "Mary Ann Kelly" (on a pawn ticket wasn't it?). However, I believe that this has been explained well enough for us to regard it as a coincidence.

    Speaking of the Double Event, I was watching a programme the other day about the Cambridge Rapist (UK mid 1970s). Apparently he was thwarted by one potential victim and, unsatisfied, immediately sought out another and indulged his sick urges fully with her. I was struck by the parallel with Jack, assuming that he was interrupted by Diemschitz. Interestingly the Cambridge Rapist disguised himself as a woman in an attempt to avoid detection - a strange echo of Arthur Conan Doyle's theory - and got around on a bicycle.

    Best wishes,
    Steve.

    PS I'm not suggesting that Jack had a bike by the way.

    Comment


    • #3
      Hi all,

      first I would like to state that I don't think the Ripper knew his victims, but if we enter the realms of fantasy, he could have met Eddowes accidentally and, as she was on his "list", used the opportunity.

      Personally I don't think so, as the other victims were at least living close together and to some of the murder sites so you would expect him to murder two of the others on the same night if he indeed knew them before.

      Greetings,

      Addy

      Comment


      • #4
        meeting

        Hello DD. If we assume that Kate had a meeting arranged it would explain much.

        1. It would explain why she was nonplussed when she discovered it was already 1 AM.

        2. It would explain her "body english" with the chap she was chatting up in Lawende's presence.

        3. It MIGHT even explain (to some degree) why John Kelly was lying through his teeth at the inquest.

        Cheers.
        LC

        Comment


        • #5
          Hi Steve,

          I didn't know that about the Cambridge Rapist. It's very interesting because this makes it at least four genuine double events in recent history we can look at for parallels with the night of Sept 30 1888.

          Ted Bundy was also 'thwarted by one potential victim and, unsatisfied, immediately sought out another' to abduct and murder. In an hour or so he had found one.

          Mark Dixie, in South Croydon, was also 'thwarted' when a taxi interrupted his attack on one potential victim and, 'unsatisfied, immediately sought out another and indulged his sick urges fully with her'. He found the second one 40 minutes after leaving the first.

          In West Croydon, a young man was also 'thwarted' when three witnesses saw him trying to strangle one potential victim and, 'unsatisfied, immediately sought out another' and beat her to death with a lump of wood in an exceptionally savage attack. It had taken him a few hours to find this one.

          Love,

          Caz
          X
          "Comedy is simply a funny way of being serious." Peter Ustinov


          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by caz View Post
            I didn't know that about the Cambridge Rapist. It's very interesting because this makes it at least four genuine double events in recent history we can look at for parallels with the night of Sept 30 1888.
            Caz, good information and maybe not the place for it, but when I think of the interrupted or unsatisfied serial killer, and especially one who got sexual gratification from his tasks as I think the Ripper did, I think about men on the prowl for women on a purely sexual basis. How often do men (young ones especially) attempt to get laid only to have themselves stymied by bad pick-up lines, other men interrupting their spiel, or women losing interest for one reason or another? Yet, these often indefatigable lads go after someone else, determined to get something that evening. Is the same drive that keeps these blokes seeking others when one attempt fails, similar to the drive of the sexual serial killer? If so, a better case can be made for the likes of the Barnetts, Hutchinsons, and Kosminskis as it is the young ones who typically, don't give up.

            Cheers,

            Mike
            huh?

            Comment


            • #7
              Hello, Caz.
              Wow! That's fascinating stuff and a little disquieting. It's almost enough to make me believe in Evil as an unstoppable, external force. Almost. Anyway, it's extremely interesting to learn of more parallels to the most widely believed Double Event scenario.
              Best wishes and thanks for the info.,
              Steve.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by caz View Post
                Hi Steve,

                I didn't know that about the Cambridge Rapist. It's very interesting because this makes it at least four genuine double events in recent history we can look at for parallels with the night of Sept 30 1888.

                Ted Bundy was also 'thwarted by one potential victim and, unsatisfied, immediately sought out another' to abduct and murder. In an hour or so he had found one.

                Mark Dixie, in South Croydon, was also 'thwarted' when a taxi interrupted his attack on one potential victim and, 'unsatisfied, immediately sought out another and indulged his sick urges fully with her'. He found the second one 40 minutes after leaving the first.

                In West Croydon, a young man was also 'thwarted' when three witnesses saw him trying to strangle one potential victim and, 'unsatisfied, immediately sought out another' and beat her to death with a lump of wood in an exceptionally savage attack. It had taken him a few hours to find this one.

                Love,

                Caz
                X
                I can add another one here. Just a few months ago there was an interstate truck driver here in the U.S. who was a serial killer. He tried to break into a woman's home but she was able to call the police and he fled. He killed another woman shortly after that.

                c.d.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Of course, if a double event occurrs, a connection has to be made between the two events and that might not always be the case (no snide Liz comments please).

                  c.d.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Possible?

                    If he did plan to do a double, I would think that this was an ideal way to have it done. Stride can not be found too quickly, he has to walk to site number two. She does need to be found at some point, just not exactly as he leaves. The other sites outside he can always claim to be helping someone that is drunk on the road, but that makes him a witness, with Stride he can't take the time to lie as a witness, he has another kill to do. So to control as much of the situation as possible, she is killed in an enclosed area with limited access, in a location where people are up and active. It would be the best that he could do, I would think, and not cutting Stride means that her time of death can not be very far off, where having her cut to pieces may bring doubts as to how long she had laid in the dark. If she cools too quickly, and a time of death is placed that is off the mark, someone may think that since he had done what he wanted with Stride, then the gap between the two simply meant that two killers were out and about, instead of one that wanted a double. Just a thought.
                    I confess that altruistic and cynically selfish talk seem to me about equally unreal. With all humility, I think 'whatsoever thy hand findeth to do, do it with thy might,' infinitely more important than the vain attempt to love one's neighbour as one's self. If you want to hit a bird on the wing you must have all your will in focus, you must not be thinking about yourself, and equally, you must not be thinking about your neighbour; you must be living with your eye on that bird. Every achievement is a bird on the wing.
                    Oliver Wendell Holmes

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by lynn cates View Post
                      Hello DD. If we assume that Kate had a meeting arranged it would explain much.

                      1. It would explain why she was nonplussed when she discovered it was already 1 AM.

                      2. It would explain her "body english" with the chap she was chatting up in Lawende's presence.

                      3. It MIGHT even explain (to some degree) why John Kelly was lying through his teeth at the inquest.

                      Cheers.
                      LC
                      The issue I take with this idea is, as I've said, assuming that the Ripper did have an appointment with Eddowes in Mitre Square at 1:30 A.M., it must have been made before 8:30 P.M. when she was arrested by PC Robinson and taken to Bishopsgate. Remember that she wasn't released from her cell until 1:00 A.M., only thirty-five minutes before she was seen by Lawende and company and forty-five before her already quite-mutilated body was discovered by Swanson. Already in her case the Ripper is working on an extremely constricted schedule, since, after all, she was still quite alive as Lawnede and his friends left. There would have been almost no time for him to meet up with her to schedule an appointment, especially if he had just finished up with Stride and had to make his way back north. And so it would have to have been done prior to her arrest. Which means that Eddowes would have had to book it directly to their pre-arranged meeting place while leaving him enough time to butcher her enough to be found in the state she was, and all in the space of forty-five minutes.

                      What kills it for me, though, is that even Jack the Ripper, canny though he may well have been, could have had no way of knowing that she was going to be arrested. If they had made arrangements before 8:30, he ran a lot of risks, chief among them being that she would get arrested and just possibly tell the police she had plans that night. Fortunately, her statement that "I shall get a damn fine hiding when I get home" seems to me to support the thesis that her run-in with the Ripper was unplanned.
                      Last edited by Defective Detective; 11-04-2010, 11:13 PM.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        answer

                        Hello DD. I think the time of the appointment was for 12:30--same as Liz. Hence her reaction.

                        But I like one thing you said. You referred to her "hiding" statement and its implications. If it were on the up and up and she were serious, then surely she would have gone straight home rather than turning left into Mitre sq.

                        Cheers.
                        LC

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by lynn cates View Post
                          Hello DD. I think the time of the appointment was for 12:30--same as Liz. Hence her reaction.

                          But I like one thing you said. You referred to her "hiding" statement and its implications. If it were on the up and up and she were serious, then surely she would have gone straight home rather than turning left into Mitre sq.

                          Cheers.
                          LC


                          Or that she was still sloshed enough not to realize where she was heading. Though PC Hutt reported her as sober, the fact that he also reported her to be singing suggests to me that she was not. My interpretation of events is that she turned into Mitre Square mistakenly and, before she could realize it, was approached by the Ripper with an offer to make money for the night.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Or she could have set out with the intention of returning home then, reflecting that she would probably get a good hiding, simply changed her mind.

                            Best wishes,
                            Steve.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Or she figured she was less likely to get a hiding if she could sweeten him with some cash, so she went looking for it from a kindly stranger - and got more than she bargained for.

                              Or is that far too simple?

                              Love,

                              Caz
                              X
                              "Comedy is simply a funny way of being serious." Peter Ustinov


                              Comment

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