I am a hypocrite

[protohistorian]

On 01/24/2010 I started this thread, http://forum.casebook.org/showthread...ndards+respect. I was then of the opinion that the vitriol expressed sometimes on the boards was excessive and a bad indicator for our community as a whole. My sentiments were not entirely unlike those expressed by Adam Went here, "It was only a couple of days ago that in a private e-mail I described certain members as, and I quote, "a pack of wild animals" on the casebook examiner no 2 thread post number 111.

In post 16 of the thread above Ally posted this "If you don't want to fight, that's your choice, but exhorting other to allow lies and dishonesty to flourish under the false premise of "civility" is a tacit statement that the truth isn't worth fighting for. "

I confess, at the time I did not fully comprehend what Ally was saying in relation to the postings of others being distortive. Then this happened....
http://forum.casebook.org/showthread.php?t=4663&page=12.
I realize the thread is 12 pages long, but please bear with me, it is important to note the flow, bearing in mind the changes in tone, and the nature of the comments of each poster.

In this thread there is behavior that deserves vitriol. A behavior that sends a far worse message about our community than "a pack of wild animals". I will not say which poster I find insufferable, I will only say that anyone who has ever been confronted about anything will immediately see the tactics of diversion and the process of projecting in operation.

I for one will not cry for civility when these behaviors are being displayed. I will not run the risk that the work of hard working and talented researchers who produce professional results (like Tom Wescott) are lumped in with the childish behaviors displayed on the examiner 2 thread. If I am to be judged by association, I would rather be an animal than a child when it comes to my argumentative style.

I have been a soldier and a construction worker, there is not a great deal of behavior I cannot stomach. It just so happens that failure to take responsibility for ones own actions and projecting of negative traits onto another to divert scrutiny of ones self are two of my hot buttons.

What is so hard about saying I was wrong or may be wrong. Hell, I am wrong all the time. I work hard to have the spine to say it when confronted and to remedy what I was wrong about. If we look at this dualistically, there is right and wrong, binary podes that have no middle ground. That however is not the way the world works. I cannot recall a time when I was completely wrong or completely right, it has always been somewhere in between.

Failure to acknowledge the prospect of being wrong, or in the case of direct evidence, being wrong, is a far worse trait than being an animal Dave

[Rubyretro]

I agree with you Protohistorian (and just to prove it, I wrote two posts this morning, drawing attention to the fact that I elaborated one theory on a detail that some facts proved to be extremely unlikely. You can see by the timing that I wrote them before reading your post).

I think that people should bear 3 things in mind before behaving so agressively :
1) it is an extremely silly thing to obssessed by JtR, in 2010. People should put things into perspective and stop getting so worked up about it all.
2) Most of what's said on here is only conjecture; However erudite and pompous some articles are, and however much research is done on obscure
aspects of the case -the conclusions come down to personal interpretations
and personal opinions. Everyone is allowed an opinion and we should respect other people's -unless they are printing downright lies.
3) Nobody has a monopoly on the 'truth' -indeed if the truth were known, we would know who Jack was, today. We don't though, do we.

[protohistorian]

If I can make it through today without being anything worse than a hypocrite, I am going to call it a victory! Thank You Rubyretro for being able to smile at yourself, it does make the world a more pleasant place. Dave

[Ally]

I disagree with your assessment of yourself as a hypocrite. You are a person who believed a truth, and when confronted by that, realized you were wrong and changed your mind. If everyone who changed their mind refused to do so for fear of being hypocritical, there would never be any personal growth. You would only be a hypocrite if you continued to profess civility while tearing a hide off someone then whined for civility when you got it in response. So you are not a hypocrite.

As for projection of negative traits onto a person to invalidate their argument, it's a favored tactic on the boards. I am of course one of the favored targets, and the drum these people beat is hardly original. I bet they all have the same PM they just send around "oh Ally is a bitch, she never says anything worthwhile, she just attacks". Really they should go on Glee because they all sing the exact same thing to the exact same beat. You'd think they'd get a new refrain after a while.

Hmm....I realize that sounds vaguely like whining, which is not my intention, it's just an example. The fact is, nine times out of ten, people are the first to attack my person, rather than my argument, but because I am just so much damn better at it than they are, I always win and therefore, I get the rep, while they get to play the victim and slink off whining.

Truly it's tiresome. Don't be a prat if you are going to whine when you lose. There was a recent case on the boards where someone actually tried to claim I started the round of insults by saying "That's alright..". Seriously. Apparently if you say "that's alright" you are insulting someone. This was an ACTUAL claim I had to refute that I wasn't insulting someone when I said "That's alright..". WTF??

I am still trying to figure that one out. But that's typical of deflection and the infantile mentality of people who want to play victim. They can never just own up to their own nastiness, so they have to deflect it on to someone else. Luckily, I have no problem owning my nastiness. I am a bitch and proud of it.

[caz]

I bet they all have the same PM they just send around "oh Ally is a bitch, she never says anything worthwhile, she just attacks". Really they should go on Glee...

I'd just like to state for the record that I now feel like Billy No-mates. I have never received, sent or seen a PM answering to this description.

Am I also missing something by not watching Glee?

Love,

Caz
X

[Ally]

I'd just like to state for the record that I now feel like Billy No-mates. I have never received, sent or seen a PM answering to this description.

That's alright, Caz (ooh snap, die from the sting of it), you still have time. Just copy and paste the chorus and send it immediately to five people and you can be in the greatest gang of all time! Act fast though so you don't miss out on the bonus set of Ginsu knives...just like Jack would have used.

Am I also missing something by not watching Glee?

If it were 13 episodes ago, I'd say yes. The back half of the season was unfortunately quite weak and ridiculous in a bad way, as opposed to how it used to be ridiculous in a good way.

[caz]

Just copy and paste the chorus and send it immediately to five people...

Looks like I won't be in the 'gang' anytime soon then. I never respond to words like these, whether I'm promised eternal friendships if I do it, or threatened with eternal loneliness if I don't.

Love,

Caz
X

[Hunter]

Excellent post, Proto. What you mentioned was indeed part of a recurring pattern on several threads. Ally was pointing out hypocrisy, which she is ever skillful at doing.

And yes, lighten up a bit folks. As the famous Southern humorist, Lewis Grizzard once said, " They're all dead anyway and I don't feel too well myself".

[Ally]

So as not to derail the Casebook Examiner thread further, I am replying to the following post here. Also, I have tried to post this three times now, but my computer keeps timing out. So who knows if this will actually go through.

Ally:

I would very much appreciate it if you could find a post by myself anywhere where I claimed I was going to use moderating powers for evil? As I remember it, you joined JTR Forums and left a very, very short time afterwards on your own accord....

Hello Adam,

I of course cannot point to a post, because the conversation did not happen on a forum, it happened in the Casebook chatroom. It happened right after you deleted a post of mine because you mistakenly thought I was insulting Maria Birchwood. This was about the third time since I had joined that a post of mine had been deleted. Now I frequently insult Maria Birchwood, it's really one of my favorite hobbies, and I am quite happy to own up to any occasion I have done so. However, it just so happens that the person I was insulting in the post in question was myself, and because as a teenager you were barely literate, you completely misread/misunderstood what I had written. You made a big stink in the chatroom about how you hadn't misunderstood the post at all, that I had been insulting your pal (at the time) Maria. You then produced the post in the chatroom and when everyone pointed out that it was clear I was talking about myself when I referred to "Her Royal Nastiness" considering my username on the forums is Queen Mean, that the content in it in no way related to Birchwood and was clearly about myself, and you had deleted the post without cause, you then replied you didn't care, I was a bitch and you were going to make sure I went down and that basically, regardless of what I wrote, you were going to censor it, because I was a bitch and you could. It was fairly laughable, you putting your big boy britches on, borrowed as your power was.

Now as it is my firm policy not to call a board moderator a total fukking nimrod on their own board or engage in the insults you were sure to earn, given your express desire to "take me down", I emailed Howard at the time and told him regretfully I was leaving the forums, no hard feelings toward him.

I was hardly going to stay on a forum where the moderator had told me they were going to delete my posts regardless of merit because it was time "someone taught me a lesson".

And before I be accused of whining--yet again--let me point out I have always agreed that a board should be run by whatever rules the administration wants, and that if you don't like it, leave. I do actually practice what I preach.

[Jeff Leahy]

What a great place for the queen of mean to post.

Laugh I almost split my sides

Pirate

[Tom_Wescott]

I bet they all have the same PM they just send around "oh Ally is a bitch, she never says anything worthwhile, she just attacks". Really they should go on Glee...

I got another one like this just this week, except I was being chastised for posting recently that Ally isn't mean enough any more, so I was the bad guy. God bless the self-righteous.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[Adam Went]

Ally:

I'll keep it brief - aside from the fact that what you've just posted there is total rubbish (for the record, I had the complete support of the other moderators in deleting that particular message), that you would bring something up that happened, what, 3 or 4 years ago now atleast, just to try and make a silly point, tells me that i'm wasting my time even debating the matter with you. You know how the saying goes, Ally: Those who can, do. Those who can't, become critics.

Cheers,
Adam.

[Tom_Wescott]

You know how the saying goes, Ally: Those who can, do. Those who can't, become critics.

Wow, I guess that means we're all failed serial killers on here?

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[JosephDurham]

Rubyretro stated: "I think that people should bear 3 things in mind before behaving so agressively :
1) it is an extremely silly thing to obssessed by JtR, in 2010. People should put things into perspective and stop getting so worked up about it all."

If that is the case, then why is this site functioning? Why are there so many members that wish to discuss, and research the issues that are still unsolved to this very day, and may remain lost in the pages of history. I do not believe that it is so much an "obsession" for the negative, but a desire to figure out those answers that have remained unanswered for far to long a period of time.

Just my opinion,

Joseph

[Scott Nelson]

But what about 1998? Or 2002? Take 2007, or 2015?