Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

'mad As A Hatter'

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • 'mad As A Hatter'

    Was Jack the Ripper as mad as a hatter?

    Every now and then something an expert tells you sticks in your head.
    Schizophrenics are NOT dangerous. They can however become very dangerous indeed in certain circumstances. However, one would normally expect there to be additional circumstance effecting that suffer. Alcohol or drugs. Today the common use of strong ‘grass’ or ‘weed’ means that mental health workers increasingly see young men and women suffering psychosis exacerbated by the drug.

    Ok let’s cut to the chase. What I’m interested in is what drugs a young Jewish man might have been exposed to in the East end of 1888?
    Aaron Kosminski was living in a tailoring sweat shop owned by his brother and I cant help wounding if exposure to chemicals stored in that environment might have had an effect on his mental condition.

    In the sweatshop of 1850,the role of the sweater as middleman and subcontractor (or sub-subcontractor) was considered key, because he served to keep workers isolated in small workshops. This isolation made workers unsure of their supply of work, and unable to organize against their true employer through collective bargaining. Instead, tailors or other clothing retailers would subcontract tasks to the sweater, who in turn might subcontract to another sweater, who would ultimately engage workers at a piece rate for each article of clothing or seam produced. Kingsley asserted that the middleman made his profit by finding the most desperate workers, including immigrants from Ireland, women and children, who could be paid an absolute minimum. While workers who produced many pieces could earn more, less productive workers earned so little that critics termed their pay starvation wages. Employment was risky: injured or sick workers would be quickly replaced by others.

    Between 1850 and 1900, sweatshops attracted the rural poor to rapidly-growing cities, and attracted immigrants to places like East London, England and New York City's garment district, located near the tenements of New York's Lower East Side. Wherever they were located, sweatshops also attracted critics and labour leaders who cited them as crowded, poorly ventilated, and prone to fires and rat infestations, since much of the work was done by many people crowded into small tenement rooms.

    Avoiding a "progressive" view of history is a special challenge in the case of large technical changes that appear to define a watershed in human events -- as, for example, the "chemical revolution" of the 19th century, inaugurated by the discovery of the coal-tar dyes. The shift from natural materials to synthetic chemicals, and from craft techniques to machine processes, seems a sudden, dramatic, and complete transformation. Everything becomes a "before and after" story, as if there were no connections between the two stages, and it is easy to imagine that whatever came "after" worked better than what came "before." This interpretive tendency is exacerbated by the "magical" character of chemical reactions, particularly as they appear to people not already knowledgeable in chemistry.

    Because the preindustrial, presynthetic phase of the wet processing of textiles depended upon natural ingredients, the men who practiced these arts had to know (even if not in a formal sense) as much biology as they did chemistry to understand the properties of their materials-- which came from plants, minerals, and animals. The manufacture of natural dyes required a good deal of skill, especially the more complicated dyes like indigo.

    Mechanization and the factory system of production, which so altered the manufacture of cloth, also changed bleaching and dyeing--and increasingly these processes were incorporated into the factory itself. In fact, the widespread use of chemical products in cloth finishing directly followed the industrialization of textile production, reinforcing the shift from craft to factory methods.

    The craft of bleaching involved repeated and complicated stages that included steeping yarn or cloth in water, scouring them in caustic solutions (usually made from wood ashes), "souring" them in buttermilk, and then exposing them to long periods of sunlight to whiten the material. In other words, it was a time-consuming and labor-intensive process. Scheele's discovery of chlorine in the late 18th century, its application to bleaching, and the subsequent industrial production of alkalis, made bleaching into a factory process and created a chemical industry whose chief customers were textile manufacturers. The use of chlorine-based bleaching powders, and later pressurized containers, substantially speeded up bleaching so that a job taking months in the 18th century could be accomplished in hours by the late-19th century. Even so, the successful use of chemical bleaching technologies still depended on a foreman's experience and skill.

    Chemists had already been working along two directly relevant lines of activity. Some were investigating the properties of coal tar, a black, sticky, messy stuff left over in the production of lighting gas from coal, and from converting coal into coke. Coal tar had some medicinal qualities, but investigators noticed that it also carried colors.

    Alice in Wonderland: "In that direction," the Cat said, waving its right paw around, "lives a Hatter; and in that direction," waving the other paw, "lives a March Hare. Visit either you like; they're both mad."

    Harmful effects of mercury compounds. Manufacture of paints, various household items, and pesticides uses mercury; the finished product and the waste products released into air and water may contain mercury. The aquatic food chain can concentrate organic mercury compounds in fish and seafood, which, if eaten by humans, can affect the central nervous system, impairing muscle, vision, and cerebral function, leading to paralysis and sometimes death (see Minamata disease). Acute mercury poisoning causes severe digestive-tract inflammation. Mercury accumulates in the kidneys, causing uremia and death. Chronic poisoning, from occupational inhalation or skin absorption, causes metallic taste, oral inflammation, blue gum line, extremity pain and tremor, weight loss, and mental changes (depression and withdrawal). Drugs containing mercury can cause sensitivity reactions, sometimes fatal. In young children, acrodynia (pink disease) is probably caused by an organic mercury compound in house paints.

    Mercury has long been known to be toxic; the phrase "mad as a hatter" refers to the 19th-century occupational disease that resulted from prolonged contact with the mercury used in the manufacture of felt hats.

    Why were hat makers, known as hatters, described as mad? Animal fur was used by the hatters to make the hats of their day. Top hats were particularly popular. Beaver fur was the best and easiest fur to work with but it was becoming scarce and costly. Other furs such as rabbit had to be used to supply the demand for affordable hats. To turn the cheaper furs into useable material, an early step was to have the furs brushed with a solution of a mercury compound. The mercury brushed fur then had to be handled and worked with much more before it became a finished hat. Working in the poorly ventilated workshops, the hatters would breath in the mercury compounds.

    Unknown at that time, mercury is a poison that will accumulate in the body. The effects of mercury on the body include kidney and brain damage. The symptoms include trembling, slurred and confused speech, irritability, memory loss, distorted vision, anxiety, and depression. Advanced cases would have hallucinations and other psychotic symptoms. The trembling was known at the time as the hatters shakes and the symptoms of mercury poisoning is sometimes known even today as mad hatters syndrome. The prolonged use of mercury nitrate had made the hatters mad. The original mad hatter was actually a victim of an early occupational disease.

    In her classic work, Industrial Poisons in the United States, published in 1925, Alice Hamilton reviews the general subject of mercurialism in one chapter and devotes a separate chapter to the hat industry. The latter is longer than the former, reflecting the importance attached to health hazards among hatters during the first decades of the 20th century. According to Hamilton, the process of treating the fur with mercury nitrate, the so-called secretage, "...has been traced back to the middle of the 17th century when it was a secret in the hands of a few French workmen, evidently Huguenots; for at the revocation of the Edict of Nantes in 1685 when the Huguenots fled to England, they carried the secret with them, established the trade there, and for almost a century thereafter the French were dependent on England for their felt." This statement is difficult to reconcile with that which appears in Diderot's encyclopaedia published in 1753, to the effect that in preparing fur for making hats "...the pelts are rubbed with an acid solution before the fur is removed...." It is also at variance with an account of secretage given by Lee (1968) in which he states that the process was introduced into England from Frankfurt around 1870. The latter is in consonance with Thackrah's failure to include mercury poisoning in his description of hazards in the British hat industry in the early part of the 19th century.

    We know that the kosminski family were involved in Tailoring and hat production. But I’d be interested if anyone has any more specific information on the types of hats and garmets that they might have been producing.

    I’m not sayig that everyone involved in Hat making is a potencial Jack the Ripper or that would be the sole cause of Aarons illness.

    What I’m interested in is the circumstance that might have affected a young man suffering this illness to have suddenly become violent.

    Pirate Jack
    Last edited by Jeff Leahy; 03-13-2010, 11:59 AM.

  • #2
    Hello Pirate Jack

    A bit offbase for your post but apparently in the new Alice in Wonderland directed by Tim Burton and starring Johnny Depp as the Mad Hatter, part of the idea n the production was to make the statement that the mental derangement of hatters was caused by mercury poisoning. See this Google search.

    All the best

    Chris
    Last edited by ChrisGeorge; 03-13-2010, 11:52 AM.
    Christopher T. George
    Organizer, RipperCon #JacktheRipper-#True Crime Conference
    just held in Baltimore, April 7-8, 2018.
    For information about RipperCon, go to http://rippercon.com/
    RipperCon 2018 talks can now be heard at http://www.casebook.org/podcast/

    Comment


    • #3
      AP do you mind I'm not that mad! Daoh! you beat me to it...

      Yet again Mr Depp appears to have tapped into the zeitgeist

      Yours Jeff

      Comment


      • #4
        To Pirate

        I think this is very interesting what you are exploring with this fascinating post!

        Cheers Jonathan H

        Comment


        • #5
          Thanks, Pirate.

          Well I edited my post but I do have great difficulty distinguishing between Pirate Jack and Captain Jack as well as among the different Chrises here... me included of course.

          Wouldn't it be a whole lot better if we posted under our own names instead of these silly screen names?

          Just a suggestion, matey.

          Chris
          Christopher T. George
          Organizer, RipperCon #JacktheRipper-#True Crime Conference
          just held in Baltimore, April 7-8, 2018.
          For information about RipperCon, go to http://rippercon.com/
          RipperCon 2018 talks can now be heard at http://www.casebook.org/podcast/

          Comment


          • #6
            Hello you all!

            Well, I haven't seen the new Alice in Woderland yet, but I suppose, it's just one of these rip-offs, to be forgotten within a few years....

            To the theme of this thread; I suppose, one question is; how calm Kosminski could act outside?!

            To talk about pseudonymes, Chris; I was thinking about having "Rouge Aide" (sounds a bit like my Finnish last-name) as my Board name in 2006. But I didn't want to read, that "some Finnish Egyptian says this and that..."

            All the best
            Jukka
            "When I know all about everything, I am old. And it's a very, very long way to go!"

            Comment


            • #7
              Hi Jukka

              Its important to remember that Schizophrenia hits sufferers in waves. It's important to remember that Harry Cox describes the man he followed (St Georges in the East) as having periods of insanity.

              What I’m trying to establish is why during these periods Aaron might have become Violent

              On JtRforums Rob House posted in detail about Lust killers. In reply Caz bought up the case of Mark Dixie who appears to have committed a murder showing signs of ‘Lust ‘killing (Biltes-trophies) while under the influence of cocaine. or cocaine induced psychosis.

              This reminded me that my brother had stated that in his professional opinion another external factor like Alcohol or drugs would be mixed in the mental cocktail.

              Mercury in it self would not cause the schizophrenia but someone already suffering the condition might by pushed into a more violent reaction than other sufferers. Or at least that is the premise I'm putting forward.

              But I think it fair to say that his mental condition would vary considerably. A typical psychotic episode is Sixteen weeks. But the sufferer will phaze in and out. Especially if there are chemicals influencing the condition.

              Yours Piratie Jeffie thingy

              Comment


              • #8
                Hi all
                I haven't seen it yet- although am quite excited by the prospect of the 3D kicking in when Alice disappears down the hole etc etc- could be fun! Johnny Depp is the PURRFECT choice- as is Stephen Fry as the Cheshire Cat!!!

                The hatter thing did - as Chris said come from the use of mercury in the hatting buisiness- Listening to Cox and Box as I type here- so I know I'm right! .

                The poor matchgirls of course- suffering from starvation,overwork and of course phossie jaw also came from the use of phospherous in match making- (Annie Besant 1888 Match Girls Strike (!)) and all that!

                Suz xx
                'Would you like to see my African curiosities?'

                Comment


                • #9
                  Hats were (and are) made from felt produced from the fur of various animals. Hats were never made from the pelts of any animal. The individual hairs in beaver pelts lie very flat to the skin, and have to be raised before they can be shaved off. A solution of mercurial nitrate was brushed onto the pelt, which was then left for a period of time, and the hairs were then removed by a device called a bow, which was actually a very sharp blade tensioned by means of a wooden bow. Quite how the mercurial nitrate raised the 'nap' of the pelt I'm afraid I don't know. The shaved hair was then used to manufacture a felt by means of pressing it repeatedly.

                  I am actually employed by a company that processes felt (we no longer manufacture it because it's an extremely prolonged and labour-intensive process). Animal hair felt is still made for hatting, but it is a very expensive material these days.

                  Suzi - Cox & Box, eh? Great short show, and often a prelude for a second G&S performance, usually HMS Pinafore or Pirates. Hsve you ever heard or seen 'The Zoo' - music by Sullivan, libretto by (I think) a bloke called Julian Sturgess? Or did Sturgess write the libretto for 'Cox & Box? Can't remember, to be honest - it's Saturday night and I'm very happy...! Hic!

                  Cheers,

                  Graham

                  PS: back again 5 mins later. The libretto of The Zoo was by a bloke calling himself Bolton Rowe.
                  PPS: and the libretto of Cox & Box was by F C Burnand. I told you it's Saturday! Julian Sturgess wrote the libretto for 'Haddon Hall', Sullivan's failed grand opera.
                  Last edited by Graham; 03-14-2010, 12:36 AM.
                  We are suffering from a plethora of surmise, conjecture and hypothesis. - Sherlock Holmes, The Adventure Of Silver Blaze

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I could be wrong here, but as far as I know, none of the Kozminski's were involved in hat production. Aaron's brother Isaac made ladies jackets. Also, it is not known whether Aaron lived in Isaac's shop as you state. I have suggested that this may have been the case... and I think there is some support for such an argument (obviously, since I am the one who made it). However, we clearly do not know this was the case, so you should not state it as if it was a fact.

                    Likewise, I do not really buy the whole concept that schizophrenics cannot be violent. Clearly, statistically speaking, MOST schizophrenics are not violent. But then again, most people are not violent either. From several studies I have read, violent schizophrenics often have co-morbid psychopathic characteristics (or as the study put it they scored high on Hare's psychopathy checklist.) So I think the thing to consider is the type of person who may first be either psychopathic or borderline psychopathic, and who then in addition develops psychosis.

                    Rob H

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by robhouse View Post
                      I could be wrong here, but as far as I know, none of the Kozminski's were involved in hat production. Aaron's brother Isaac made ladies jackets. Also, it is not known whether Aaron lived in Isaac's shop as you state. I have suggested that this may have been the case... and I think there is some support for such an argument (obviously, since I am the one who made it). However, we clearly do not know this was the case, so you should not state it as if it was a fact.
                      I agree. I haven't seen any evidence of the family's involvement in hat making.

                      As well as Isaac making ladies' jackets, of course Woolf was sometimes described as a maker of mantles.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by robhouse View Post
                        Clearly, statistically speaking, MOST schizophrenics are not violent. But then again, most people are not violent either.
                        Rob H
                        A man with whom I was in school was diagnosed with schizophrenia in his 20s.

                        We lost touch, so did not talk until about our 40s. However, in the earlier years, I had run across a court record (I copied court records) where he had been committed for violence -- perhaps a couple of times.

                        He told me that he (a normally very intelligent, well-spoken, handsome man, but very gentle, almost too much so) became violent when he was hearing voices and no one would admit to having said anything.

                        He was just trying to make the people around him admit they were whispering. When no one would admit to whispering, he tried to force them to admit it because the voices he was hearing were real.

                        It was only after that that he came to understand that the voices were part of his disease.

                        So, the reason for the violence might be something we could never guess. My friend said the voices would whisper just mundane things. For instance, if he was shopping for groceries, he might hear "see he's checking out that cereal" or once he heard a woman's name over and over as he drove across a river bridge. The next day, a woman by that name jumped from the bridge and killed herself.

                        If JtR was schizophrenic, we can never guess what the trigger might have been for the killings.

                        curious
                        Last edited by curious; 03-14-2010, 04:46 PM.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Hi Guys

                          Dealing with violence and schizophrenia is very difficult as statistic analysis appears to differ according to which part of the word the study has been made.

                          However by and large I will stick with my statement that schizophrenics are NOT dangerous, because it is simply a matter of fact that the majority of people suffering the illness are never dangerous (if perhaps a danger to themselves).

                          They may be satistically more dangerous than people not suffering any illness but satistically they are less dangerous than people suffering other illnesses. And you must remember that people not suffering illness (although I think we should be careful how that is difined) will also commit violent acts.

                          It is now accepted that people with schizophrenia are significantly more likely to be violent than other members of the general population. A less acknowledged fact is that the proportion of societal violence attributable to schizophrenia is very small.

                          The conclusions of those reaching the putative link between schizophrenia and violence changed in the late twentieth century. Until the early 1980s the consensus was that those with schizophrenia were no more likely than the general population to be violent. New epidemiological evidence has emerged, however, that has radically challenged this view. It is now generally accepted that people with schizophrenia, albeit by virtue of the activity of a small subgroup, are significantly more likely to be violent than members of the general population, but the proportion of societal violence attributable to this group is small. This review provides an overview of the main studies that have influenced current thinking about the association, followed by an epidemiological appraisal of the difficulties inherent in this type of research. It attempts to differentiate those most at risk of behaving violently and concludes with some estimate of the absolute risk posed to the community by those with schizophrenia.


                          In Out of the Shadows, published by John Wiley & Sons earlier this year, I estimated that there are now approximately 1000 homicides a year committed by individuals with schizophrenia and bipolar disorder, almost all of whom were not taking medication at the time of the homicide. My estimate was based on all cases in a metropolitan area of 4 million people for 1 year, then extrapolated to the whole country. Anecdotal evidence suggests that such cases are not unique to urban areas so I think such extrapolation is reasonable. To date, nobody has challenged this 1000/year estimate. Altogether in the US there are approximately 24,000 homicides a year.

                          With violence being a main selection criterion for admission, studies of violence committed before and during hospitalisation are of limited usefulness because they will overestimate any association. Discharged patients are a selected group because they are generally judged not to pose a threat or to pose less threat than those retained in hospital. As such, one would expect lower rates of violence to be recorded at this time than prior to admission.
                          Before hospitalisation. Humphreys et al (1992) estimated that 20% of first-admission patients with schizophrenia had behaved in a life-threatening manner prior to admission. Volavka et al (1997) estimated that 20% of first-contact patients with schizophrenia had assaulted another person at some time in the past.
                          During hospitalisation. These studies have suggested relatively high rates of assaultativeness (Karson & Bigelow, 1987; Walker & Seifert, 1994). Results must be viewed with particular caution, however, because violence may be more of a response to the contextual setting of a confined ward than to an individual's mental state.
                          Following discharge. The two most comprehensive studies published to date on violence risk after discharge fail to provide separate data for schizophrenia (Steadman et al, 1998; Link et al, 1992, see below). Monahan & Applebaum (2000), as part of the MacArthur Risk Assessment Study, estimated the prevalence of community violence in discharged patients by diagnosis. Violence was measured from multiple sources every 10 weeks for a year. Of the 17% of patients with a diagnosis of schizophrenia, 9% were violent in the first 20 weeks after discharge. This compares with a violence prevalence of 19% for depression, 15% for bipolar disorder, 17.2% for other psychotic disorders, 29% for substance misuse disorders and 25% for personality disorder alone. The fact that this and other studies have found rates of violence to be lower in those with schizophrenia than in those with other diagnoses (Harris et al, 1993; Wallace et al, 1998) should not be misinterpreted to suggest that schizophrenia may be irrelevant or even a protective factor against violence. It is probably true that schizophrenia is less of a violence risk than substance misuse, personality disorder and possibly other mental disorders, but when compared with the general population, as this review amply demonstrates, the evidence is overwhelmingly in favour of an increased risk of violent behaviour.

                          In the third study, Mullen et al (2000), in Australia, studied two groups of patients with schizophrenia first admitted in either 1975 (before major deinstitutionalisation) or 1985 (when community care was becoming the norm). Compared with general population controls, both groups were significantly more likely to be convicted for all categories of criminal offending, except sexual offences. Those with comorbid substance abuse accounted for a disproportionate level of offending. The increased number of convictions in those with schizophrenia in the 1985 group compared with the 1975 group seemed to reflect a general increase in offending in those of a similar age, gender and place of residence. As such, the shift to community care was not marked by any significant change in relative rates of conviction in schizophrenia. The effect of community care on risk of violence in schizophrenia requires further study. One study examining homicide statistics in the UK has reported little fluctuation in the numbers of people with mental illness committing homicide between 1957 and 1995 and a 3% annual decline in their contribution to the official statistics (Taylor & Gunn, 1999).

                          The weight of the evidence to date is that although a statistical relationship does exist between schizophrenia and violence, only a small proportion of societal violence can be attributed to persons with schizophrenia. Future research should focus on the interplay of various factors affecting this relationship by using robust methodologies.

                          My understanding is that if Aaron Kosminski was suffering Schizophrenia and became violent during phases known as ‘psychotic episodes’ then there would likely have been other external factors mixed with the condition that lead to those acts.

                          Of course a pycopathic personality developed through childhood stress and abuse is possible. However I was advised that if someone were accessing Aaron today they would look for more ameadiate problems like drugs and alcohol. So the point of this thread was merely to examine the question could Aaron kosminski with been exposed to chemicals that may have had a drug like effect? And the obvious place to look for those chemicals would seem to be in the Tailoring trade. Given that his brother was involved in Tailoring and Aaron was possibly used as a night watchman on the premises.

                          Of course it's quite possible that no chemicals were present at all. Perhaps all of the clothe used was bought in from outside and only stitched together in the sweat shop.

                          Not being familiar with such production I do not know what processes took place. And I was genuinely interested if anyone had any views or information about this.

                          However I was raising the point that there are dangerous chemicals associated with dying and felt production that might have an adverse effect on someone already suffering schizophrenia. On the whole schizsophrenics tend not to be dangerous and looking for other contributing factors would appear reasonable.

                          Yours Pirate
                          Last edited by Jeff Leahy; 03-15-2010, 12:32 PM.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            "The fact that this and other studies have found rates of violence to be lower in those with schizophrenia than in those with other diagnoses (Harris et al, 1993; Wallace et al, 1998) should not be misinterpreted to suggest that schizophrenia may be irrelevant or even a protective factor against violence. It is probably true that schizophrenia is less of a violence risk than substance misuse, personality disorder and possibly other mental disorders, but when compared with the general population, as this review amply demonstrates, the evidence is overwhelmingly in favour of an increased risk of violent behaviour."

                            This is pretty much consistent with what I have read on the subject. And as I said, one study showed that people with schizophrenia who committed violent acts often scored high on Hare's psychopathy checklist. This in my opinion, is much more interesting in assessing the etiology of violence among schizophrenics than other factors, although admittedly substance abuse apparently increases the likelihood of violence. One example would be Marc Sappington... a schizophrenic man who committed murders, with post mortem mutilation and cannibalism, while using PCP and other drugs.

                            I do not think there is much if any support for your "chemicals in the tailoring industry" theory. The much more likely "substance" Aaron would have been exposed to would have been alcohol.

                            RH

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Hello you all!

                              Well, I do know painters, who worked in car factories in "the good old days"; without any masks etc.

                              Though they ended up to an early pension because of the effects on their heads, none of them lost their minds in a sense of turning to violence!

                              All the best
                              Jukka
                              "When I know all about everything, I am old. And it's a very, very long way to go!"

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X