Liz's big night out

[lynn cates]

Hello. As one who is about to go crazy trying to get the incongruent pieces of the Stride puzzle to fit, I am reduced to the following plea for help.

What were Liz's intentions for the night of her murder? The evidence seems to suggest that she was not planning to spend a usual evening at home. Her statement was to this effect. We know she had some money and was well dressed, at least comparatively so.

Martin Fido, in "The Crimes, Detection, and Death of Jack the Ripper" suggests:

"[T]here can be no doubt that she was actively soliciting." [p. 62]

He then notes the anomaly of her appearing to turn down a customer later on that evening.

Another suggestion is that she had a heavy date. This seems to fit her behaviour on that evening, especially her using a breath freshener.

IF she had a date, who was he? Was it the man identified by Best and Gardner? He was very amorous with Liz. What about Marshall's man 45 minutes later? Could he be the date? Is he the SAME man with a misidentified hat? Was she yet to meet her date? Could it be a club patron she was waiting to meet?

Ideas please.

LC

[c.d.]

Hi Lynn,

I don't think the idea of Liz having a date and her soliciting are mutually exclusive. Perhaps she started the evening with the intention of being on a date but the date never showed up. Perhaps she did have a date but it ended early for some reason perhaps an argument. If she did have a date, why did her date not escort her home? She might have simply been trying to make the best of plans gone wrong and earn some money on a weekend night probably the best time for prostitutes to get customers.

I wouldn't have any problem with the idea of her date being Jack himself. That is something that I always thought possible especially in the light of the actions of Kate and Mary. Kate goes off in a direction away from her home late at night. Was it to meet somebody? Did Mary open her door late at night to a date that had not shown up earlier in the evening?

Just a few possibilities.

c.d.

[lynn cates]

scared

Hello. Thanks. Jack's being the date is possible. Perhaps he is no longer finding random women (like Polly and Annie) since they may be scared off the street?

LC

[Sam Flynn]

Hello. Thanks. Jack's being the date is possible. Perhaps he is no longer finding random women (like Polly and Annie) since they may be scared off the street?

Eddowes wasn't, Lynn - and I doubt that she was alone in that. Furthermore, if Jack was the "date", how did he fix it up in the first place?

On a different tack, here's what I think might have happened:

Liz's "date": Why don't you come back to stay at my place, Liz?

Liz: Not tonight... some other night, eh?


(I've gone through that myself, and I dare say a few others here have too.)

[c.d.]

Hi Sam,

I think Jack would have set up the date pretty much like everybody else does by simply asking Liz if she would like to go out. Either doing it earlier that day or earlier in the week.

c.d.

[Sam Flynn]

Hi Sam,

I think Jack would have set up the date pretty much like everybody else does by simply asking Liz if she would like to go out. Either doing it earlier that day or earlier in the week.

What if someone found out and trailed her? Far too risky. Besides, why should he abandon his method of impulse killing just on this one occasion? Especially when one considers that, as alluded to in my previous post, Eddowes wouldn't have been the only solitary woman out on the streets that night, nor on any other night before or after.

[lynn cates]

sleep quarters

Hello Sam. If Liz is turning down her date's offer of a sleep over, where was she intending to sleep that night? Certainly not in the usual place?

LC

[Sam Flynn]

Hello Sam. If Liz is turning down her date's offer of a sleep over, where was she intending to sleep that night? Certainly not in the usual place?

I don't see why not, Lynn... whatever "the usual place" might have meant to Liz Stride. Was it Flower & Dean, or Devonshire Street?

[lynn cates]

coroner's report

Hello Sam. I mean Flower and Dean st. I am thinking about the coroner's summary.

Cheers.

LC

[Sam Flynn]

Hello Sam. I mean Flower and Dean st.

Indeed, but she only stayed there occasionally, one or two days a week at most, and until the week of her death she seems not to have stayed there for some months. From witness testimony, it appears that she claimed that she and Kidney lived in Fashion Street - although it's frustrating that no landlord or lodging-house keeper from Fashion Street was called to confirm that. Prior to all this, we know that she and Kidney lived for over two years in Devonshire Street, off the Commercial Road.

One thing's for certain - when we think about Liz going "home", we're treading on eggshells!

[lynn cates]

living among the Jews

Hello Sam. That's quite true. Where WAS home?

Do you have any good information on her "living among the Jews" and working for them?

The best.

LC

[Sam Flynn]

Do you have any good information on her "living among the Jews" and working for them?

Our only info on the matter comes from a single sentence uttered by Elizabeth Tanner at the inquest, and all she says was that "Long Liz" (she didn't know her proper name) told her that she was "at work amongst the Jews". At least, that's all that was recorded in some of the papers. However, the Evening News of the 4th October 1888 introduces an interesting slant, recording Tanner's testimony thus: "She returned on Thursday, saying she had been at work with the Jews". We must bear in mind that this report is very much a "precis", rather than a verbatim account, but - if true - then it might suggest that Liz was still working for Jews right up to her death. Question is - which Jews, and where?

[lynn cates]

whoa ho

Hello Sam. Thanks. I think I may be an idiot. I think I just caught your drift. WHAT IF SHE WORKED FOR A CLUB MEMBER?

The implications are rather far reaching, eh?

LC

[Sam Flynn]

Hello Sam. Thanks. I think I may be an idiot. I think I just caught your drift. WHAT IF SHE WORKED FOR A CLUB MEMBER?

I wouldn't go that far, but at the very least the implication of her having semi-regular employment might mean that someone would have known where to go looking for her.

[lynn cates]

place

Hello Sam. But wouldn't her being employed by one of the members help explain what she was doing there? If she were turning tricks, she chose a very poor place to do it.

The best.

LC